RE: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?

From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Dec 19 2004 - 21:10:32 GMT

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    Sam Norton's argument goes like this:

    - Kant was still working through the 'drama of justification' that he'd
    inherited from Descartes, in other words: what are our grounds for
    certainty?

    - his epistemological division between phenomena and noumena was his answer,
    circumscribing reason to the phenomena;

    - this proved unpalatable to the theologically minded;

    - Schleiermacher argued that feelings could give us access to the noumena
    and called this 'mysticism' (thereby changing the sense of the word
    'mysticism');

    - the tradition following Schleiermacher emphasises certain metaphysical
    claims;

    - these claims seem to be present in the MoQ;

    - it therefore seems to be that the MoQ is still operating within the
    Kantian epistemological framework (the conceptual shape is the same as
    Schleiermacher's).

    dmb replies:
    There are many points that could be taken up here, but I want to focus on
    Schleiermacher. He is central here and elsewhere Sam had even suggested that
    Schleiermacher is responsible for shaping the Modern West's view of
    mysticism, so that I and Pirsig are guilty by association whether we know it
    or not. I'd like to put this vague and unsupported assertion to rest. As I
    already mentioned, his name does not appear in the index of the books I rely
    on most heavily for my views on mysticism, nor does his name even appear in
    my encyclopedia of philosophy. I'm NOT saying that such a conspicuous
    absence is proof of anything, but it does seem to suggest that he's not a
    very important voice.

    This morning, just by luck, I found him in a book I'd borrowed from a
    classmate in 1984. In H.G. Schenk's THE MIND OF THE EUROPEAN ROMANTICS,
    Schleiermacher is listed as a "German Protestant theologian" and is featured
    most prominently in a section titled, "EMOTIONAL CHRISTIANITY". Apparently,
    he stressed sentiment and emotion over intellect and put the emphasis on the
    Holy Spirit instead of the Father or the Son, but I hardly think this
    resembles what I've been saying or what Pirsig is saying. Apparently he made
    a splash among his contemporaries, but is now all but forgotten. I suspect
    he's a big deal and/or a big problem in theological circles, but as a
    philosopher he's such a small town that he only appears on very detailed
    maps. I'm not even sure if its correct to call him a philosopher and he's
    not a philosophical mystic as I understand it.

    Thanks,
    dmb

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