Re: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?

From: Phaedrus Wolff (PhaedrusWolff@carolina.rr.com)
Date: Mon Dec 20 2004 - 23:53:19 GMT

  • Next message: Mark Steven Heyman: "MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101"

    > dmb says:
    > I think this distinction [jnani/bakhti] is very important in general and
    is central to our
    > debate in particular. As the JNANI website explains, Western religions
    tend
    > to be of the devotional sort and tend to deny that there is any other
    kind.
    > It seems pretty clear to me that this has been your position, Sam. Your
    > insistance that mysticism can only be found within the traditions and your
    > denial that mysticism is about the mystical experience itself plainly
    > expresses that position....

    Sam) - I think this counts as putting words into my mouth (to better fit in
    with your rhetorical
    strategies).

    Hi Sam,

    I stopped my reading long enough to answer to this. It was my understanding
    that you stated something to the nature that you can't have a mystical
    experience outside the tradition, and that in order to have a mystical
    experience, you first had to master the tradition. This is where I thought
    you were getting mysticism confused with SQ/DQ. If I am wrong in my
    translation of what you actually said, I'd be tickled to hear what you meant
    as this is where I felt we were so far apart.

    Sam says) - This was a surprise to me, but it ties in with the
    various discussions we've had here and in the MF section, especially about
    whether Quality is
    separate from DQ/SQ (my perspective) or whether DQ and SQ are in a
    source/expression relationship
    (your point of view, as I recall).

    This is also confusing to me, as I felt Quality was actually divided into
    SQ/DQ, the SQ was the definable Quality, while DQ was not definable, and
    that you only knew it was DQ once it became a creation that then became SQ.
    It is a matter of SQ discreation and DQ creation, but neither are dependent
    on the other.

    If everything is Quality, how could Quality be outside anything?

    Chin

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