From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Mon Dec 27 2004 - 17:02:15 GMT
Hi Sam,
Just a quick response...
On 27 Dec 2004 at 11:32, Sam Norton wrote:
In other words, when we use the word 'experience' we tend to still
use it in a SOMish way. My suspicion - growing stronger all the time -
is that Pirsig doesn't escape this problem, and the metaphysical
apparatus that he set up in Lila is still conditioned by the
Cartesian/Kantian framework. But I'll spell all that out in longer
form. This was just a taster :-)
msh says:
Well, feel free to spell it out but you'll be pushing an open door
(or, in your case, preaching to the choir), at least if it's me you
are trying to convince.
I think that anyone who formulates a thought is stuck with SOM,
whether they like it or not, most obviously when they try to express
that thought to someone else. I think that everyone will from time
to time have pre-intellectual (mystical) glimpses of the reality
behind the veil, and that there may be ways to instigate and even
prolong such experiences (thus my interest Mysticism 101); but,
eventually, we must "return to the market place." It's either that
or non-functional insanity, sitting alone on the floor in a room, and
letting cigarettes burn down into our fingers.
In my last post to the "Is Morality Relative?" thread, I questioned
what Pirsig might mean by saying that a continuous "flood" of sense
data is coming our way, too much for us to process meaningfully.
This is where he says DQ preselects (or filters or creates?) VALUABLE
data for our enjoyment. This to me is problematic. If DQ preselects
then it must be selecting some data from the stream and ignoring
others. So what's the source of the stream? If DQ doesn't select
from the stream but rather "creates" the data, then it's fair to ask
if DQ is private or public. If public, then there is something OUT
THERE. If private, then we are stuck with solipsism.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see what others have to say about
this, either here, or in response to the "Is Morality Relative?"
thread.
Later,
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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