From: Phaedrus Wolff (PhaedrusWolff@carolina.rr.com)
Date: Mon Dec 27 2004 - 17:22:21 GMT
Hi dmb,
As usual, I have no argument with what you say, so there is no reason to
address all you have written.
Chin said:
A degenerate is just as capable of a mystic experience as a theologian or
philosopher, and possibly more so.(IMHO)
dmb says:
Yea, I suppose anyone is capable. It seems pretty clear that one can
increase the chances by keeping bad things like degeneracy and theology at
bay, but I don't see any reason to exclude anyone outright. I think alot of
degenerate behavior is motivated by a desire for DQ, but it is so badly
understood in our culture that no one seems capable of offering what they
want in a more constructive way. When scientific materialism seems so empty
and nihilistic and religion seems so unbelievable, what's is a seeker to do?
Someone defined the "new age movement" as a process of discarding childish
beliefs like the virgin birth and the resurrection and replacing them with
even more ridiculous beliefs from an even more obsolete religion in an even
more reactionary way. I'm sympathetic because I think there is a genuine
spiritual sickness in the world and its only natural that people should go
looking for relief.
Chin phylosophizes:) -- It may be right there in front of us, but we can't
explain it. In my simplistic view, the waves and particles from the other
side of the world communicate with the waves and particles on this side, and
the waves and particles of the worm communicate with the waves and particles
of the stars. The bolder we can't move is no more real than the spec of dust
in the wind we can't even imagine.
Everything in life, even the way the air moves out of our way so we can move
through it is a mystical experience. A mystical experience can only be
described to the degree of our understanding which must be viewed as
pathetic and inadequate. It may be that only by understanding how pathetic
and inadequate we are that we are capable of enlightenment.
As far as religion, God is in everything including the germs under you
fingernails. In philosophy I must refer to Socrates; "I may be the wisest
man on earth, as I know I know nothing." (paraphrased)
Chin
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 8:57 PM
Subject: RE: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?
> Sam, Chin and all MOQers:
>
> Chin said:
> I simply do not see mysticism limited by religion or philosophy, as
> mysticism denies any religious or philosophical guidelines, and most
> certainly is not limited to any cultural/religious traditions.
>
> dmb says:
> OK. But let's not forget that philosophical mysticism and the mystical
> reality itself are two different things entirely. The former is a body of
> static intellectual descriptions, its a philosophy. As such it most
> certainly is limited by definitions, particular ideas that interrelate in
a
> coherent way and is otherwise limited and constrained by all sorts of
> standards. But maybe "limited" is the wrong word. Maybe we should just say
> that philosophical mysticism, like all philsophies, takes shape by way of
> distinctions and lines and particular idea and that the form gives us a
new
> kind of freedom to approach those ineffable realities. AS I tried to point
> out in the "code of art thread", form is freedom and higher forms mean
more
> freedom.
>
> Chin said:
> The only limitations I see, as I have offered previously, to a mystic
> experience, is that of culture/religion denial.
>
> dmb replies:
> Right. How does Pirsig put it? Dynamic Quality is everywhere but some
> cultures filter it out. Like ours.
>
> Chin said:
> A degenerate is just as capable of a mystic experience as a theologian or
> philosopher, and possibly more so.(IMHO)
>
> dmb says:
> Yea, I suppose anyone is capable. It seems pretty clear that one can
> increase the chances by keeping bad things like degeneracy and theology at
> bay, but I don't see any reason to exclude anyone outright. I think alot
of
> degenerate behavior is motivated by a desire for DQ, but it is so badly
> understood in our culture that no one seems capable of offering what they
> want in a more constructive way. When scientific materialism seems so
empty
> and nihilistic and religion seems so unbelievable, what's is a seeker to
do?
> Someone defined the "new age movement" as a process of discarding childish
> beliefs like the virgin birth and the resurrection and replacing them with
> even more ridiculous beliefs from an even more obsolete religion in an
even
> more reactionary way. I'm sympathetic because I think there is a genuine
> spiritual sickness in the world and its only natural that people should go
> looking for relief.
>
>
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