From: Ian Glendinning (ian@psybertron.org)
Date: Tue Jan 04 2005 - 11:54:36 GMT
Paul asks
"Are there non-SOMist things-in-themselves? What could they possibly be?"
Marsha answered that already - "Processes"
I say Relationships, which SOMists would characterise as cause / effect
between subjects and objects, but which we model as DQ.
Processes / Dynamic Relationships - choose your preferred term, bananas
maybe.
The Kantian ding-an-sich doesn't exist.
Things (like bananas) exist though - to disagree would be Nihilism - no ?
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Turner" <paul@turnerbc.co.uk>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:38 PM
Subject: RE: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101
> Hi Ian, MSH
>
> Ian said:
> Paul, careful with his words,
> He does not say
> "There are no things-in-themselves."
> "The primary 'reality-in-itself' is nothingness."
>
> He says (in the quotes you provide)
> Primary Reality (things in themselves, out there) are not independent of
> value or relationships, in fact they are relationships.
> He doesn't say they don't exist.
> He is saying they don't exist in an independent SOMist way.
>
> Paul:
> If every thing always turns out be a relationship with something else
> i.e., exists only within a relationship with something else, then things
> themselves i.e., with no relationship to anything else, don't exist.
>
> Also, with the language he was using, MSH seemed to be talking about a
> Kantian ding an sich which the MOQ definitely does deny exists.
>
> "Quality in the MOQ is monistic and thus is not the same as Kant's
> "thing in itself" which is the object of a dualism." [Lila's Child
> p.348]
>
> Are there non-SOMist things-in-themselves? What could they possibly be?
>
> As for primary reality, this is proposed as Quality and Quality is
> equated with nothingness. Therefore, the primary reality is nothingness
> and not "things in themselves, out there," as you state above.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
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