Re: MD Pirsig an artist - MoQ & love

From: Valence (valence10@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Jan 28 2003 - 18:51:19 GMT

  • Next message: Dan Glover: "Re: MD Lila's Child"

    Matt,

    > > DICTIONARY.COM
    > > Love\, n. 1. A feeling of strong attachment induced
    > > by that which delights
    > > or commands admiration; pre["e]minent kindness or
    > > devotion to another;
    > > affection; tenderness; as, the love of brothers and
    > > sisters.
    > >
    > > RICK
    > > This is the common defintion of love
    >
    > Matt: Yes, and look, it's a noun, as I said.

    RICK
    Nobody disputed love was a noun (I never made any claims about nouns/verbs,
    you did. You're arguing with yourself on this point).

    RICK
    > You ask if I read the posts. Well, have you even read
    > Lila? Patterns don't value things, patterns manifest
    > value, hence the term "patterns of value", not
    > "patterns that value" - this is something of an
    > important thing, you know

    RICK
    Matt, you are confusing yourself. Pirsig very clearly wrote that in the MoQ
    "B values precondition A." As both "B" and "A" must be patterns, it should
    be obvious even to the sloppiest reader that patterns themselves value
    things (a human is a pattern Matt! Are you arguing humans don't value
    things?). You're reading would completely rewrite Pirsig's ideas from start
    finish.

    MATT
    It's just that you
    > overstate the importance of love. You do know of love
    > as a concept? Something that consumes vast
    > proportions of lyrics, books, poems, and social
    > rhetoric - something that man has seeked to unravel
    > since the beginning of man itself. And you want to
    > cram this vast concept into a tiny definition, value?

    RICK
    See how confused you are Matt... you can't even decide what you think is
    wrong my thesis on love. First you say I've overstated its importance,
    implying that I've blown it up to more than it is. Then in the next breath
    you say I've reduced it to a "tiny definition", implying I've reduced it to
    being less than it is. Of course, I've done neither. I've simply restated
    the conventional definition of love in MoQ terms... the same thing Pirsig
    did for "causality", "subjects", "objects"...etc.

    MATT
    > Well actually you've just proven that it *is* simply a
    > semantic point. You've said it's a restatement of a
    > popular concept (aka defintion) which clearly is a
    > semantic point. You are merely pointing something
    > out, not coming up with a new positive applicable
    > idea.

    RICK
    The original post from Willy called for a thesis on how "love" fits into the
    MoQ. That is what I gave him.

    thanks for thoughts Matt, but I think I'm done with this thread,
    rick

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