RE: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101

From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Jan 16 2005 - 02:22:31 GMT

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    Howdy MOQers:

    Wolff said:
    I have to ask - What is this show of emotion all about? I've seen bikers who
    hated other gangs less than Christians are hated here.
    To me, Judeo-Christian, Islam, or Deity Zen is just as likely to hold the
    key as science or astrology, or Humanity Zen, Nature Zen, or Nature
    spirituality - or mathematics.

    dmb replies:
    I guess comments like this are responsible for Chuck's observation that you
    seem to be more a perennialist more than anything else. Its a fine
    sentiment. While I might quibble and say that some belief systems are better
    than others, I agree that each form of expression has something to offer and
    is beautiful in its own way. The problem has always been that the religions
    themselves aren't so tolerant or generous in this way. The theistic
    religions of the West tend to believe that God plays favorites and that
    God's favorite is us and not those other guys. I mean, shall we be polite
    and respectful about a person's belief system even if it includes the view
    that all infidels must die or that the fate of my eternal soul depends on
    the acceptence of certain doctrines? Sure, some religious people are real
    nice about it. They don't hate YOU, they just hate what you do or what you
    think or how you act, cause its sinful, sinful, sinful and by the way you're
    like a dirty old rag compared to god and are hopelessly flawed and he loves
    you and would like to say there is a place for you in heaven but gee I'm
    sorry fella ya gotta burn forever in a stinky vat of maggots. Wanna go to
    church on sunday?

    And if you think I'm being hypercritical and unrealistic, let me remind you
    that we are not just talking about clubby snobs with attitudes. We're
    talking about centuries of death, torture and unimaginable suffering that
    certainly did NOT come to an end on September 11th. And these same deeply
    religious pepole (fanatics) would now like to produce a mushroom cloud over
    your town. Are we supposed to repectfully accept those beliefs? So, as I see
    it, the perennial philosophy is a real life saver. Its all about making life
    better.

    Such a shift would be a HUGE change. I think the biggest part of the problem
    in what's going on in the struggle between social and intellectual values is
    that each side has a view that excludes the other's views as legitimate. We
    see this in the struggle over evolution in our schools. We have social level
    beliefs trying to play the role of science and a scientific world view that
    has little respect for religion. The believers in the united states have
    developed a fake-victimhood, the persecuted majority. They feel there is a
    conspiracy to destoy them. This is what we see in Platt's paranoid
    delusions, such as when he said, "any mention of the supernatural drives
    secular fundamentalists crazy for the simple reason that they must sever the
    people's relationship with God in order to gain full control over them." The
    sad thing is that he could very well be serious and sincerely believe that
    there is a conspiracy to sieze control of things and somehow alter his
    christian ways. This fear is expressed in lots of ways, but Platt's is
    especially naked. This fear is what drives the anti-intellectualism of the
    right. Intellect is exactly what threatens those beliefs most, not any
    imagined conspirators, but that's how the resistence of the social levels of
    values plays out, through individuals who identify with them so much that
    scientific principles, logic and facts become the enemy. Intellectual
    principles are warped and turned back on themselves in this process too.
    Take a look at Platt's next sentence, for example, where he says, "So long
    as free people believe that their basic moral rights to life, liberty and
    the pursuit of happiness come from God and not from other men, attempts to
    remove those rights by political means (coercion) will be resisted." Moving
    quickly past the extremely doubtful assertion that only believers will
    resist the stripping of their rights, and simply ask, rhetorically, if God
    is the one who also gave us freedom of religion? Notice how this formulation
    of rights has nothing to do with the philosophies of the Western
    Enlightenment but has instead turned political ideology into God's divine
    plan. It takes an idea and reduces it to a social level belief about our
    nation doing God's work in the world, which is now spreading God's freedom.
    Osama is gonna love that. George is the perfect president for this
    historical moment don't you think. Fight fire with fire and all that?

    Oh well. I guess the only thing to do before this life is over is try to
    find
    the beauty of things, things like the marvelous translucent glow of that
    mushroom cloud that just went off over your head. Oh, what a drag - and the
    last thing you ever got to do in your life was read a post from me!?

    See you in hell,
    dmb

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