From: Ian Glendinning (ian@psybertron.org)
Date: Mon Jan 17 2005 - 17:59:36 GMT
Platt ...
Your complaint is [Quote] ... the lack of cogent argument against views that
some find wrongheaded. Time and again I've had to point out the ad hominem
nature of many responses to my questioning of leftist ideas, and lately
there have been appeals to such authorities as [songwriters and comedians]
... From there the debate has nowhere to go but down. [Unquote]
Whilst arguments are directed at you, as the obvious target, they are in no
way "ad hominem" in any way that wishes you personally any ill. I've been
quoting poetry at you for some months, and Ant has just piled his love songs
on top of that. Motivations are all well intentioned, and openly explained.
If you see love as "down" relative to logic (or cogent argument as you call
it) then that is a pity.
I repeatedly refuse to stoop exclusively to logic to explain myself, but
simply express sympathy for you and your ilk.
And by your ilk, I really do not care whether your politics are left or
right, but more whether you are hidebound by authoritarian rules of
certainty.
My objection is to conservative with a small "c" at the expense of dynamic
with a captial "Q"
I live in hope that one day you might address that point in debate.
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>; <owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: MD The Long & Winding Road
> Hi All,
>
> I must say I'm flattered to be the center of so much attention recently,
> illustrating I suppose that my conservative political views are not
> welcome by some who contribute to this site. This seems rather odd since
> those on the opposite side of the political spectrum often speak of their
> love, caring, and compassion towards all, not to mention their tolerance
> and sensitivity to the thoughts and feelings of others.
>
> But such hypocrisy isn't my main concern. Rather it is the lack of cogent
> argument against views that some find wrongheaded. Time and again I've had
> to point out the ad hominem nature of many responses to my questioning of
> leftist ideas, and lately there have been appeals to such authorities as a
> singing group called the Beatles and a comedian named Bill Hicks. To reply
> in kind by following this line of argument I could legitimately cite the
> musings of Snoop Doggy Dog and Jackie Mason. From there the debate has
> nowhere to go but down.
>
> Another frequently used form of argument is to accuse me (and anyone who
> suggests the possibility of an intelligence that transcends man) of fear
> mongering while simultaneously stating the dire consequences that will
> befall us by allowing God-fearing conservatives to exercise political
> power.
>
> Another technique is to use a singular occurrence of anecdotal evidence to
> prove a point (When I was sick socialized medicine saved my life.) while
> ignoring evidence compiled by a broad range of study. (The NHS has a
> severe shortage of capacity, directly costing the lives of tens of
> thousands of patients a year. Source: The Guardian.)
>
> Finally, there's the implication, sometimes obviously stated, that if your
> political view isn't leftist, you certainly aren't qualified to be
> admitted to the intellectual level, a status reserved for properly
> educated individuals or for those with sufficiently large hearts to
> understand the wisdom of robbing rich Peter to rescue poor Paul from the
> consequences of his bad decisions. Being nonjudgmental of others (amoral)
> is considered highly moral by leftists (never mind the contradiction) ,
> unless of course the person in question is a conservative.
>
> None of this makes a wit of difference when it comes to interpreting
> Pirsig's metaphysics. Being an avowed atheist, Pirsig's supports those
> deny any role of God in the affairs of man. Being in favor of free
> markets, he supports those who believe capitalism on balance is more
> conducive to the pursuit of happiness than socialism. Other than that, his
> politics is not known in any detail. We do know that he attributes some
> social problems to a lack of moral standards, especially among the
> intellectual elite who are wed to the SOM paradigm.
>
> In any case, I appreciate the undeserved attention, but hope we can
> continue debating issues of interest without getting personal. After all,
> it's the ideas, not whose ideas they are, that counts.
>
> Best,
> Platt
>
>
>
>
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