From: Ron Winchester (phaedruswolff@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Jan 25 2005 - 00:42:12 GMT
Joe;
I am not a billiard player. I sing in a choir and chorus, and I accept some
of the loss of small self that comes after you have mastered some mouth
positions for vowels and consonants, and use of the diaphragm in breathing.
Never make an ugly sound. Every sound is under control. Trust and detachment
are important.
I want to change the subject to logical positivism, analogical reality,
metaphorical nihilism.
As an example of logical positivism I am thinking of the periodic table of
elements. As an individual I use materials. I have little awareness of the
basis of indexing of the periodic table. I am driving too fast.
As an example of analogical reality I am thinking of 'like'. I put effort
into my awareness. I am an air head.
As an example of metaphorical nihilism I am thinking there is no 'must' in
my awareness. I am nothing if not destructive.
Wolff;
If I am reading you right, it seems you are saying none of this really
matters, and I would pretty much agree. All any of this can do is point to
something you know from experience; and experience that is not limited to
subject and object, or even Quality.
Dmb used the term 'no-mind' which I challenged, then dropped as I realized
he has become a peeper, so he must be enlightened. :o) (he should get the
punch line)
As opposed to looking at no-mind, maybe we can look at free-mind. The
free-mind is without desire, so there is no need to try to understand
Quality through philosophical statements such as logical positivism,
analogical reality, metaphorical nihilism. The free-mind would not desire to
know Quality, but would not turn Quality away.
Embrace nothing; turn nothing away.
I like the statement from James; "Everything real is experienced; everything
experienced is real somewhere." (paraphrased from CRS memory)
By 'experienced' here, it does not mean object or subject, and does not mean
a Quality experience, but any experience mental, non-mental, or
pre-consciousness. It doesn't matter if the experience comes from the brain
or the cosmos. It doesn't matter if you verify the experience; it is just
experienced -- do divisions, no classifications, no defintions. It is
Quality, it just doesn't need to be classified as such.
>From: "Joseph Maurer" <jhmau@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>Subject: Re: MD Logical positivism, Analogical reality, Metaphorical
>nihilism
>Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:03:18 -0800
>
>On 21 Jan 2005 4:22 PM Wolff writes to Joe,
>
>[Wolff] What you are describing is Quality in its full experience. To use
>billiards,
>you practice the game, learn the connection of the balls to the cue ball to
>the cue to the table and to the opponent. Once you have mastered that
>static
>Quality of the game, you are then capable of experiencing DQ in your game.
>You are no longer concerned with the connection of the balls, cue, table,
>or
>opponent. You them become aware of the motion of your stroke. Without
>thought, you let the cue slide to that position on the ball that will sink
>the shot, and leave the cue ball where you want it for the next shot. Prior
>to the thought, prior to the mechanics of the game, there is that split
>second when you make a seemingly unconscious decision before thought, and
>before the geometrics. For this split second, you lose all consciousness of
>the components that make up the game, and you and the cue become one. You
>know before you strike the ball what the ball is going to do. This is the
>DQ experience in the game. You have mastered the static patterns, and
>nothing
>but DQ matters. This DQ latches to the static patterns, including your
>small
>self that is nothing but a static pattern that has been built up as you go.
>
>
><snip>
>
>
>[Wolff] Maybe you just no longer question Quality, but more realize it is
>the
>questioning of Quality that denies the answers you search for; the answers
>you always had, but were insecure of.
>
>What you think?
>
>
>Hi Wolf and all,
>
>Very good! I see the analogy of billiards to philosophy, science, culture
>and nature. Quality!
>
>I am not a billiard player. I sing in a choir and chorus, and I accept some
>of the loss of small self that comes after you have mastered some mouth
>positions for vowels and consonants, and use of the diaphragm in breathing.
>Never make an ugly sound. Every sound is under control. Trust and
>detachment are important.
>
>I want to change the subject to logical positivism, analogical reality,
>metaphorical nihilism.
>
>As an example of logical positivism I am thinking of the periodic table of
>elements. As an individual I use materials. I have little awareness of the
>basis of indexing of the periodic table. I am driving too fast.
>
>As an example of analogical reality I am thinking of 'like'. I put effort
>into my awareness. I am an air head.
>
>As an example of metaphorical nihilism I am thinking there is no 'must' in
>my awareness. I am nothing if not destructive.
>
>Joe
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Winchester"
><phaedruswolff@hotmail.com>
>To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 3:45 PM
>Subject: Re: MD Logic, Analogy, Metaphor
>
>
>>Joe;
>>Tying analogy to quality describes: "I experience dynamic quality."
>>Quality is experienced and undefined.
>>
>>I like Mark Maxwell's The Edge of Chaos on moq.org as 'the sweet spot' of
>>artistic analogy. Words as sq patterns reflect a connection and tension to
>>dq from which they are latched. With training the 'tension' in the
>>patterns is explored and manifested.
>>
>>Hi Joe,
>>
>>I say very good.
>>
>>What you are describing is Quality in its full experience. To use
>>billiards, you practice the game, learn the connection of the balls to the
>>cue ball to the cue to the table and to the opponent. Once you have
>>mastered that static Quality of the game, you are then capable of
>>experiencing DQ in your game. You are no longer concerned with the
>>connection of the balls, cue, table, or opponent. You them become aware of
>>the motion of your stroke. Without thought, you let the cue slide to that
>>position on the ball that will sink the shot, and leave the cue ball where
>>you want it for the next shot. Prior to the thought, prior to the
>>mechanics of the game, there is that split second when you make a
>>seemingly unconscious decision before thought, and before the geometrics.
>>For this split second, you lose all consciousness of the components that
>>make up the game, and you and the cue become one. You know before you
>>strike the ball what the ball is going to do. This is the DQ experience in
>>the game. You have mastered the static patterns, and nothing but DQ
>>matters. This DQ latches to the static patterns, including your small self
>>that is nothing but a static pattern that has been built up as you go.
>>
>>I would think the same would hold true in philosophy. You are exposed to
>>philosophy, but more so to science, culture and nature. Science, culture,
>>and nature all communicate with your philosophy on a constant, circular
>>motion to where you are no longer concerned with science, culture, nature,
>>and philosophy; everything becomes art. The circular communication of all
>>things work their way through you without conscious decision making, but
>>as you suggest mystic communication of which you become a part of; a
>>non-resistant part of. You lose your small self, and everything you have
>>learned, or think you have learned, and just join the flow of the
>>universe.
>>
>>Maybe you just no longer question Quality, but more realize it is the
>>questioning of Quality that denies the answers you search for; the answers
>>you always had, but were insecure of.
>>
>>What you think?
>>
>>Wolff
>>
>
>
>
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