RE: ID/Ling, again (was Re: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic)

From: Arlo Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Tue Feb 15 2005 - 21:42:36 GMT

  • Next message: Erin: "RE: ID, again (was Re: MD Pure experience and the Kantian problematic)"

    Scott/Paul,

    Just to chime in quick...

    I am currently working on a paper that links pre-semiosis with Dynamic
    Quality. Pirsig began in ZMM:

    The application of this knife, the division of the world into parts and the
    building of this structure [semiosis], is something everybody does. All the
    time we are aware of millions of things around us- these changing shapes,
    these burning hills, the sound of the engine [clip]- aware of these things
    but not really conscious of them [presemiosis] unless there is something
    unusual or unless the reflect something we are predisposed to see [based on
    our cultural-historical semiotic mediation]. [clip] From all this awareness
    we must select, and what we select and call consciousness is never the same
    as the awareness because the process of selection mutates it [Quality can
    never be captured in a semiotic system of this distortive process]. [big
    clip]. To understand what he was trying to do it's necessary to see that
    part of the landscape, inseparable from it, which must be understood, is a
    figure in the middle of it, sorting sand into piles.

    Pirsig uses the amoeba and heat example, in that the response to heat is
    presemiotic (Dynamic) first, as in "this is poor Quality", and
    semiotically-mediated (in humans) later with the conscious understanding of
    "heat". An infant would respond like the amoeba by having only the
    awareness of low Quality. Eventually, as the infant ages, he/she will be
    able to formulate this experience into a semiotic system to symbollically
    re-experience the experience culturally, but always after the primary DQ
    experience.

    Umberto Eco calls the presemiotic experience that prompts semiotic response
    the "Dynamical Object" (the use of Dynamic is coincidental). In Kant and
    the Platypus, Eco says, mirroring Pirsig:

    But there is a phenomenon we must understand as presemiotic, or
    protosemiotic (in the sense that it constitutes the signal that gets the
    semiosic process underway), which we will call primary indexicality [clip].
    Primary indexicality occurs when, amid the thick stuff of sensations that
    bombard us, we suddenly select something that we set against the general
    background and decide we want to speak about it (when, in other words,
    while we live surrounded by luminous, thermile, tactic, and interoceptive
    sensations, only one of these attracts our attention, and only afterward we
    say that it is cold, or we have a sore foot).

    Before language, before semiosis, there is only uncategorized,
    unconceptualized, unmediated "experience". Eastern mysticism, in it many
    guises, has an ubiquitous element of "escaping words" either through
    meditation, live burial, paradoxes, koans, etc. This desire to return to
    presemiotic experience, Pirsig links up with "experiencing Dynamic
    Quality". Platt refers to it very eloquently in his writings on art.

    With infants, I think their prelingual, presemiotic experience is very much
    pure Dynamic Quality. With adults, the "key" is to return to a state of
    semiosis (language) with some insight or improvement based on your journey
    into presemiosis. Infants are, of course, unable to do this as they have
    not appropriated any semiotic system.

    In this sense, language is a form of symbolic violence (to paraphrase
    Bourdieu), in that though it is vital for our survival, and our ability to
    construct static, social-cultural-historical edifices, it does, in effect,
    rip us out of primary, direct experience of the world, and creates the
    false illusion of SOM. A double-edged sword, if you will.

    Arlo

    At 02:40 PM 2/15/2005, you wrote:
    >Scott
    >
    >Scott said:
    >Hence the gist of my metaphysics: to reject the
    >language/world-without-language distinction.
    >
    >Paul:
    >What about the pre-lingual experience of infants?
    >
    >Regards
    >
    >Paul

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