Re: MD severe tensions

From: Sam Norton (elizaphanian@kohath.wanadoo.co.uk)
Date: Tue Mar 15 2005 - 16:27:31 GMT

  • Next message: Joseph Maurer: "Re: MD severe tensions"

    Hi Marsha,
    Fair points all of them. Time for me to shut up for a while.

    Sam

    I loved your master perfectly
    I taught him all that he knew.
    He was starving in some deep mystery
    like a man who is sure what is true.
    (Leonard Cohen)

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "MarshaV" <marshalz@charter.net>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 12:23 PM
    Subject: Re: MD severe tensions

    >
    > Hi Sam,
    >
    > To me your dialogue has the flavor of Christianity. You do not need to
    > use the word 'God'. As a priest your world view is influenced by your
    > religion and it's tradition. If it weren't, you'd be a lousy priest.
    > Unless becoming a priest was, for you, just an interesting way to feed,
    > clothe and stimulate your mind.
    >
    > There have been many great responses to your "severe tensions", but days
    > later you proceed as if the response were insignificant to your purpose
    > and you ignore them.
    >
    > I asked what it was that you'd 'discovered or been taught' that conflicts
    > with Pirsig's MOQ. You did not answer my question. You told me what you
    > thought. So I told you what I thought.
    >
    > In my experience even a few nanoseconds of DQ are a privilege. The
    > problem seems to be that 'pure experience' doesn't do what YOU want it to
    > do.
    >
    > You based your second point on the fact that Pirsig hasn't read
    > Wittgenstein and therefore doesn't understand modern metaphysics.
    > Baloney!!! Have you read Northrop? You have been told that Northrop
    > would help your understanding of MOQ, and this is a MOQ list. Right?
    >
    > I am grateful to you, though. The wonderful responses you have elicited
    > have been very helpful to my understanding of MOQ. It is frustrating and
    > unfortunate that so many of the responses just blow through you.
    >
    > Marsha
    >
    >
    >
    > At 07:46 AM 3/15/2005 +0000, you wrote:
    >>Hi Marsha,
    >>
    >>Interesting that I didn't mention God once in that first 'severe tensions'
    >>post, and yet you bring it in for most of your reply, and it is then the
    >>issue that gets taken up. Undoubtedly my faith is a part of how I view the
    >>world, but I don't think the tensions depend on my religious beliefs.
    >>(Besides which, if I didn't 'accept the metaphysics of quality' to some
    >>extent, there wouldn't be any tension, would there?)
    >>
    >>In broad terms, my concerns overlap with those of Matt (an atheist) and
    >>Scott (an interested non-believer). So whilst you might be able to
    >>discount my qualms as the ravings of a religious fruit and nutcake, you
    >>can't do the same with Matt and Scott - at least, not if you have any
    >>concern for intellectual integrity (but maybe I'm assuming too much). How
    >>do you cope with their arguments, when you can't pigeonhole them in the
    >>same way, and thereby insulate your beliefs from what they have to say
    >>along similar lines?
    >>
    >>If Matt and Scott didn't exist, and I was a lone voice, I would certainly
    >>have left by now. It's the fact that some people do 'get' what I'm driving
    >>at - and see that it doesn't depend on prior religious beliefs, ie don't
    >>interpret my views through the lens of 200 year old Enlightenment
    >>propaganda - that reassure me that I'm not completely barking mad. But
    >>hey, if it's one person, he's mad, if it's two people, it's a cult, if
    >>it's three thousand it's a religion. Only a few more to go....
    >>
    >>Sam
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
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    >>
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    >
    >
    >
    >
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    >

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