From: Sam Norton (elizaphanian@kohath.wanadoo.co.uk)
Date: Tue Mar 15 2005 - 16:27:31 GMT
Hi Marsha,
Fair points all of them. Time for me to shut up for a while.
Sam
I loved your master perfectly
I taught him all that he knew.
He was starving in some deep mystery
like a man who is sure what is true.
(Leonard Cohen)
----- Original Message -----
From: "MarshaV" <marshalz@charter.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: MD severe tensions
>
> Hi Sam,
>
> To me your dialogue has the flavor of Christianity. You do not need to
> use the word 'God'. As a priest your world view is influenced by your
> religion and it's tradition. If it weren't, you'd be a lousy priest.
> Unless becoming a priest was, for you, just an interesting way to feed,
> clothe and stimulate your mind.
>
> There have been many great responses to your "severe tensions", but days
> later you proceed as if the response were insignificant to your purpose
> and you ignore them.
>
> I asked what it was that you'd 'discovered or been taught' that conflicts
> with Pirsig's MOQ. You did not answer my question. You told me what you
> thought. So I told you what I thought.
>
> In my experience even a few nanoseconds of DQ are a privilege. The
> problem seems to be that 'pure experience' doesn't do what YOU want it to
> do.
>
> You based your second point on the fact that Pirsig hasn't read
> Wittgenstein and therefore doesn't understand modern metaphysics.
> Baloney!!! Have you read Northrop? You have been told that Northrop
> would help your understanding of MOQ, and this is a MOQ list. Right?
>
> I am grateful to you, though. The wonderful responses you have elicited
> have been very helpful to my understanding of MOQ. It is frustrating and
> unfortunate that so many of the responses just blow through you.
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
> At 07:46 AM 3/15/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>>Hi Marsha,
>>
>>Interesting that I didn't mention God once in that first 'severe tensions'
>>post, and yet you bring it in for most of your reply, and it is then the
>>issue that gets taken up. Undoubtedly my faith is a part of how I view the
>>world, but I don't think the tensions depend on my religious beliefs.
>>(Besides which, if I didn't 'accept the metaphysics of quality' to some
>>extent, there wouldn't be any tension, would there?)
>>
>>In broad terms, my concerns overlap with those of Matt (an atheist) and
>>Scott (an interested non-believer). So whilst you might be able to
>>discount my qualms as the ravings of a religious fruit and nutcake, you
>>can't do the same with Matt and Scott - at least, not if you have any
>>concern for intellectual integrity (but maybe I'm assuming too much). How
>>do you cope with their arguments, when you can't pigeonhole them in the
>>same way, and thereby insulate your beliefs from what they have to say
>>along similar lines?
>>
>>If Matt and Scott didn't exist, and I was a lone voice, I would certainly
>>have left by now. It's the fact that some people do 'get' what I'm driving
>>at - and see that it doesn't depend on prior religious beliefs, ie don't
>>interpret my views through the lens of 200 year old Enlightenment
>>propaganda - that reassure me that I'm not completely barking mad. But
>>hey, if it's one person, he's mad, if it's two people, it's a cult, if
>>it's three thousand it's a religion. Only a few more to go....
>>
>>Sam
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
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