Re: MD Whither "direct," "pure," and "immediate"?

From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Wed Mar 16 2005 - 01:55:50 GMT

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    :-)
    Drivel is in the eye of the beholder, perhaps.
    Ian

    On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:11:46 -0800 (PST), Erin <macavity11@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > All this talk about "pure" reminds me of Steve Martin's "Pure Drivel" book.
    > It's not just drivel, it's pure drivel.
    >
    > "Dolly defended me at a party. She was an artist who showed at the Whitney
    > Biennial, so she had a certain outlook, a certain point of view, a certain
    > understanding of things. She came into my life as a stranger who spoke up
    > when I was being attacked by the cocktail types for being the publisher of
    > The American Drivel Review. It wasn't drivel that I published, she explained
    > to them, but rather the idea of drivel.
    > (snip a part)
    > As the publisher of A.D.R., I had never actually written the stuff myself.
    > But the next morning I sat down and tossed off a few lines, and then
    > nervously showed them to Dolly. She took them into another room, and I sat
    > alone for several painful minutes. She came back and looked at me. "This is
    > not just drivel," she exulted. "It's pure drivel."
    >
    >
    >
    > It's also funny because he also talks a about WITTGENSTEIN'S BANANA in the
    > book of Pure Drivel "A banana is flying first class from New York
    > to L.A. Two scientists, one in each city, are talking on the phone about the
    > banana. Because it is moving in relationship to its noun, the referent of
    > the word *banana* never occupies one space, and anything that does not
    > occupy one space does not exist. Therefore, a banana will arrive at JFK with
    > no limousine into the city, even though the reservation was confirmed in
    > L.A. "
    > Erin
    >
    >
    > Matt Kundert <pirsigaffliction@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > Dan,
    >
    > I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
    >
    > Dan said:
    > Ontologically speaking, experience is never direct.
    > ...
    > The MOQ begins with experience, not pure experience, just experience.
    >
    > Matt:
    > Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the distinct impression that
    > the words "direct" and "pure" were consistently used qualifiers for
    > experience throughout Pirsig's work, Northrop's work, and throughout
    > Anthony's work. And I was under the impression that some people (including,
    > for the most part, Pirsig) thought they were important, played some role in
    > the way we read Pirsig.
    >
    > In fact, I just finished my review of Anthony's essay on the forum and most
    > of it revolves around criticizing the use of these qualifiers.
    >
    > Are we suddenly giving up on these terms? If we are, I don't think we
    > should obscure the sea change th! at would be involved in interpreting
    > Pirsig,
    > at least the change in the dominant opinion, particularly given that much of
    > my critique of Pirsig in the last few years has revolved around these terms
    > and I've received much animated derision over my "misunderstanding" of
    > Pirsig.
    >
    > Don't get me wrong: I hope my interpretation becomes the dominant,
    > mainstream interpretation. But I was under the impression that I was the
    > minority and offering a dissenting opinion, not the dominant ideology.
    >
    > Given that I could still be drastically wrong on any number of other issues,
    > what's up with immediate, pure, direct experience?
    >
    > Matt
    >
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