From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Mar 24 2005 - 09:09:28 GMT
Ham,
Still saddened to hear you refer to your prefered taste in music as a
"higher" art form, but as I genuinely said - each to his own.
BTW - No out pouring of antipathy from me (if that remark was aimed at
me) to any one "defending" the classics, more sadness at a generalised
"attack" on any other genre. I too like plenty of classical music, my
elder son is a music scholar, my dad is an orchestral nut, etc. Seems
my tastes are pretty catholic though - a wide range of both classical
and modern genres - yes even some Rap has its moments. The only thing
I discount the value of is commercial pap that is all style and visual
attitude and no content. Even revolution is a perfectly acceptable
component of content, in thouightful moderation.
(Oh the irony in Lennon & McCartney's Revolution - in the Ghandian
passive protest sleep-in style, or the Galaghers' - "Start a
Revolution from my Bed" - or John Lydon's "Anarchy in the UK" - but I
digress.)
All genre's involve a mix of biological and intellectual aesthetic
qualities (I was going to say pleasures) - not all in the ears and
minds of all beholders though.
My only motive in the thread was to separate sex from more general
biological pleasures, quite independent again of any aesthetic. Before
we talked about what was or was not degenerative.
Still OK with you.
For me this is not a dead thread.
Ian
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:50:36 -0500, hampday@earthlink.net
<hampday@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ian, Arlo, and all --
>
> I sincerely hope this will be the last of the Punk postings.
>
> Ian:
> > Platt's point I was trying to address - was the physical, rock, the
> > beat, the body - the bilogical aspect being perhaps what Platt saw as
> > "degenerate".
>
> Yes, I think getting oneself aroused to sexual activity or social revolution
> though the medium of music demeans this art form and is a symptom of
> degeneracy. Certainly there is a biological (endocrinal?) aspect in one's
> response to any of the creative arts. As a child I used to gallop around
> the house to the William Tell Overture, and I've been brought to tears by
> Isolde's love song -- from the sheer joy or beauty of the music, not for
> some subliminal political message. I've also been exposed to rap, as done
> at what they deign to call "concerts" these days, and listened in vain for
> any semblance of music. Obviously it isn't intended to please the senses
> musically, but to incite anger, hatred, distrust of authority, rebellion,
> drug abuse, among other perversions -- all in the name of music. To me,
> that's extolling the basest, most primitive and anti-social human activity.
> Why would people pay hundreds of dollars to participate in such gross
> exhibitionism? If I wanted to experience raucous, uninhibited behavior in
> my youth I could get into the Trok burlesque house in Philly for a mere buck
> fifty.
>
> But I think I've finally figured out what the appeal of degenerative music
> is all about -- and it's the same thing that has prompted the present attack
> on Platt and myself. It's the feeling that traditional values somehow
> represent an intimidating authority that engendors insecurity and must
> therefore be put down. It's the Nietzschean idea that man can discover his
> essence or meaning only in revolt, by overturning the status quo.
>
> I recall an advertisement for Decca Records in either LOOK or LIFE magazine
> back in the late '40s. It pictured a disc bearing the label "Beethoven:
> Symphony No. 5" being smashed to bits next to a headline that said something
> like: "Isn't this what you REALLY want?" Decca was converting to an
> all-popular format at the time (they recanted when LPs began to sell) and
> evidently decided that the best way to create their new market was to
> destroy the old.
>
> Radio talk-show personality Dennis Prager summed up this attitude fairly
> accurately, I think, when he said: "Those who believe in nothing are very,
> very jealous and angry at those who believe in something." He was talking
> about nihilism -- and, of course, so was I when I cited punk rock as an
> illustrative example. I've concluded that it's the resentment of
> authority -- especially against what is seen as the authority of a music
> connoisseur -- that has roused the ire of this Value-sensitive group.
>
> Arlo's recent comments bear this out:
> > Even above, while giving Ian the personal charge to determine whether or
> > not a particular song has Quality, you make it sure that it's "by the
> > standards I've cited". What's wrong with Ian's standards? Or mine?
> >
> > Either you are very egotistical about your musical sensibilities, or you
> > feel the world would be better off (less degenerate or nihilistic) if
> > everyone liked just what you like.
>
> Of course, I never said anything like that. I was asked specifically for MY
> opinions and preferences regarding a variety of musical genres, and I
> qualified my answers by stating that they expressed my personal tastes.
> "Each to his own"; "we each respond subjectively", I said. Are we not all
> expressing our personal opinions, pet theories, and individual perspectives
> when we discuss philosophy? Why should a discussion of music be thought an
> exception? Why this great outpouring of antipathy to someone's defense of
> the classics? Does Platt or Ham represent a threat to your values simply
> because we've derived much enjoyment -- and perhaps enhanced our esthetic
> sensibilities in the process -- from a more highly developed art form than
> punk rock? That there may indeed be something regressive or "degenerate" in
> our culture's defaulting to the latter?
>
> It saddens me to realize this may be so.
>
> Essentially (still) yours,
> Ham
>
>
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