From: max demian (oikoumenist@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Mar 24 2005 - 23:42:55 GMT
Hi all,
I wanted to give all involved props. I haven’t been ‘involved’ in this forum
for a lot of time; however, I have been reading for quite some time. While
there seems to be some differences between posters, I don’t doubt the brain
power that is exerted. From my view, collectively this forum seeks to
advance ideas and thought. Not such an easy task or one that many would
willingly take on. Personally, this forum has been a therapy for me, for
various reasons. I have recovered much quicker from the mental distress
caused by ECTs than most. It makes me think and it makes me remember what I
used to know. This may not work in conjunction with this thread. But, it is
important to me that I thank you all.
Max
>From: ian glendinning <psybertron@gmail.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: MD Politics of MOQ Discuss
>Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:13:47 +0800
>
>Hmm - don't think we need the "holier than thou" beauty contest -
>no-one can doubt that Ant and Matt (and Dan) all spend serious effort
>making serious contributions to the interpretation and exposition of
>Pirsigology.
>
>Not surprisingly not everyone can agree with everything said, that's
>the point, but I repeat there can be no doubt at the honest
>endeavours, surely..
>
>(I just wish I had the time for on-line reading of longer pieces, or
>to flesh out longer contributions of my own - I'm constantly impressed
>by those who do.)
>
>Ian
>
>
>On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:23:05 +0000, Ant McWatt <antmcwatt@hotmail.co.uk>
>wrote:
> > Matt K stated to Dan March 20th 2005:
> >
> > I just don't understand how people can be so dismissive of all the work
>I've
> > put in to understanding Pirsig, and then have the nerve to call _me_
> > dishonest. Do you really think I'm doing this for fun? That I'm just
>doing
> > this to annoy everyone here? You could say that about certain others,
>like
> > perhaps Struan [the patronising "professional"], who just seemed to like
>to
> > come on and say nasty things. But I think, given all available
>evidence,
> > there are few people who are as obsessed about Pirsig as I am, who are
>as
> > obsessed in trying to make Pirsig matter.
> >
> > Ant McWatt commented to Matt K March 21st 2005:
> >
> > As my hard work (from last year) concerning Rorty wasn't obviously
> > appreciated by you (and "Andy Bahn" evidently…), you have to
>understand why
> > I, for one, am rather reluctant to engage seriously with any of your new
> > extended essays and posts. Moreover, the fact that you had an essay
>titled
> > "Philosophologology: An Inquiry into the Study of the Love of Wisdom"
>and
> > deemed to change your e-mail address on MOQ.org last year to a
>pejorative
> > one regarding Pirsig does also rather undermine your claim that you are
>not
> > "doing this to annoy everyone here."
> >
> > Rick stated March 22nd 2005:
> >
> > Sorry Ant, I know you're working your rhetorical arse off trying to cast
> > Matt in a negative light, but I can assure you that the title of that
>essay
> > had nothing to do with "annoying everyone here." I suggested it.
> >
> > Ant McWatt points out:
> >
> > Rick,
> >
> > I know you suggested it. You told me in your last private message to me
>a
> > few months ago.
> >
> > Rick stated March 22nd 2005:
> >
> > It perfectly reflected the theme of the essay and I thought it was just
>kind
> > of fun and frankly, I resent the implication that it was intended to
>annoy.
> >
> > Ant McWatt notes:
> >
> > There is absolutely no implication here, Rick. Though I do understand
>that
> > you were having a bit of fun, I had in mind Dan's reply to Matt from
>March
> > 20th 2005:
> >
> > "You probably fail to realize it but… you are definitely insulting me
>with
> > postings like your recent two-parter and your 'Philosophology' essay."
> >
> > Rick stated March 22nd 2005:
> >
> > (although I take a bit of satisfaction in the fact that you've now
> > incontrovertibly exposed your anti-Matt bias).
> >
> > Ant McWatt notes:
> >
> > Actually, I'm pro-Quality. Unfortunately, it might appear that I'm
> > sometimes anti-Matt or anti-Scott or anti-Platt or whoever but I'm
>afraid it
> > only seems that way because intellectual quality comes above any social
> > niceties.
> >
> > Rick stated March 22nd 2005:
> >
> > I'm not sure if you actually read the essay (you should, it's great),
>but if
> > you did, you'd know why it has that title. Anyway, I highly recommend
>it
> > (along with Matt's Confessions essay) to everyone in this forum.
> >
> > As someone who's been hanging around these parts lurking and
>contributing
> > for many years I can honestly say that I believe Matt's essays are best
> > Forum materials I've ever read.
> >
> > Ant McWatt notes:
> >
> > I'd disagree with that as I think there are a number of essays which
>throw
> > better light in understanding the MOQ though I thought Matt's
>"Confessions"
> > essay was an interesting take on how people move from one set of beliefs
>to
> > another. However, the central point of my last message to Matt was an
> > attempt to explain why the material in his essays and posts were
>sometimes
> > simply being ignored. I gave my personal opinion about the matter and
>some
> > other general ideas about why this was the case in an effort to help him
> > deal with the situation.
> >
> > Possibly, I have been too offhand with Matt's enthusiasm with Rorty but
>I
> > really think that Rorty's work (like most Western philosophy of whatever
> > colour) is fatally tinged with SOM. Despite all of the MOQ's faults,
> > Pirsig's Zennist break with traditional Western philosophy is a valuable
>one
> > so a return to a linguistic based type of relativism (that doesn't
>recognise
> > Dynamic Quality above anything else!!!!) is a step in the wrong
>direction.
> > However, that doesn't mean that useful critiques of Pirsig's work can't
>be
> > made, for instance, from sometimes taking a Rortyan or other type of
> > SOM/post-modernist stance.
> >
> > Rick stated March 22nd 2005:
> >
> > Nothing else has ever made me think as much or as hard or as deeply
>about
> > where Pirsig is coming from, what he's driving at, and what it is that
> > Pirsig really does, and doesn't, have to contribute. For anyone who's
> > really ready to… start asking some deeper, more cutting and important
> > questions about Pirsig's work, those essays are just sitting out there
> > waiting to point you in the best direction.
> >
> > Ant McWatt notes:
> >
> > Well, there you go. If this is the case then don't you think it's worth
> > clearing-up misunderstandings and innuendos so the intellectual quality
>of
> > Matt's work can be judged without all the social baggage getting in the
>way?
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Anthony.
> >
> > www.anthonymcwatt.co.uk
> >
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