Re: MD Epigrams on Quality

From: Steve & Oxsana Marquis (marquis@nccn.net)
Date: Sun Apr 03 2005 - 17:05:08 BST

  • Next message: Steve & Oxsana Marquis: "Re: MD Contradictions"

    Platt quotes Pirsig:
    _______________________

    "Quality is a direct experience independent of and prior to intellectual
    abstractions. Quality is indivisible, indefinable and unknowable in the
    sense that there is a knower and a known, but a metaphysics can be none of
    these things. Quality is a the primary empirical reality of the world."
    (Lila, 5)
    _______________________

    Thanks for that. What I really was after was why SQ was left out of your
    epigrams. This points at what I called our 'fascination' with the idea of
    DQ. Further to the point, you post was entitled 'Epigrams to Quality', not
    Dynamic Quality, but Quality w/o any qualifier. Yet from your response it
    is clear you mean Dynamic or pre-metaphysical quality.

    From the other responses and other threads I have been reading it appears
    this is a recurrent theme. Discussion drifts more and more towards DQ, and
    then someone mentions SQ or a balance between, and there's this collective
    oh yeah, a re-centering, and then a drifting toward discussion of DQ again.
    From the old salts on this list, is this a valid claim or am I reading too
    much into this?

    DQ without SQ is what; chaos, insanity? Is it even possible? Quality is DQ
    + SQ. Has to be.

    My personal favorite depiction of DQ is the first passages of the
    Tao-te-ching.

    Wim writes:
    ______________________

    We experience change only as 'good' to the extent that it creates new sq and
    we only experience it as change because we had old sq in the first place.

    I think a Metaphysics of Quality (in which "Quality" is made part of a
    metaphysics and is not "pre-metaphysical " anymore, in Platt's term) should
    stress the roles of DQ and sq equally. That doesn't mean that we (and
    Pirsig) cannot have a personal preference for DQ and for making evolution go
    a bit faster.
    _____________________

    Yes, there is no awareness of change (intuitive or otherwise) w/o sq for
    measurement is comparative. There must be a before and after, a this and
    that. Any 'described' experience makes use of comparison.

    I like your comment on 'personal preference'. This points to the value of
    different personality types. However, maybe habitual thinking / behavior
    (the basis of the personality 'type'), even if that 'habit' is spontaneity,
    results in a 'stuckness' for the individual. This is a bone of contention
    that has cost me a friendship it looks like, and is the primary motivation
    for joining MD right now, even though I've considered it for a long while.

    Live well,
    Steve

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