Re[4]: MD Probably Silly Questions..

From: Mark (mark@antelope.nildram.co.uk)
Date: Wed May 11 2005 - 00:22:41 BST

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    Hello Michael,

    >> My real bother about the understanding I've developed - and I add
    >> again that I'm in no way sure that it's correct - is that it makes the
    >> MOQ a profoundly depressing, disempowering, hopeless viewpoint. I
    >> presume that the MOQ doesn't apply to forms of quality which are
    >> already directly understood, such as the "quality" of a
    >> multiple-choice exam answer sheet as calculated by comparing given
    >> answers with a set of predetermined correct ones.
    MH> The MOQ applies to everything! The quality of a particular answer in
    MH> the kind of exam you describe is static, and falls into the
    MH> intellectual level, as do all patterns that relate to truth or
    MH> falsity. The MOQ does apply to "forms of quality which are already
    MH> directly understood" (i.e. objects or subjects of any kind, anywhere):
    MH> it calls them static patterns of quality.

    Ok! I guess my real question is: to what extent does the behaviour of
    a person, in creating a work, affect its Quality? When someone writes
    down a piece of music, or draws a picture, we know they move their fingers to move a pen
    which releases ink onto paper to write the music or draw the picture, but how does the
    Quality get into that sheet of music or that picture? (Or is it a property only of
    the actual music that's heard, not just the written representation of
    it?) What human limb manipulates Quality?

    MH> The examples you give of essays and music, the value of which are
    MH> often deemed to be subjective and therefore unknowable, are the kind
    MH> of cases where the MOQ comes into its own. In fact Pirsig uses them
    MH> both as examples in either ZMM or Lila. For the essays, I'll direct
    MH> you to the chapters in ZMM describing Phaedrus as an English teacher
    MH> and his early discoveries about Quality. It's worth getting familiar
    MH> with, because it's a fundamental part in the genesis of the MOQ, and
    MH> Pirsig explains far better than I could.

    Sure, and it's exactly that kind of explanation that I've been
    thinking about. Before reading that part of ZMM I'd have assumed - as
    I think many people would - that the "quality" of an essay was some
    function of the choice of words that somebody had made, therefore
    meaning that certain people possessed of something called "talent"
    would choose better words more reliably and thus produce higher
    quality work. Of course, that's pretty bad if you aren't one of those
    lucky individuals, but at least it implies that you do have some input
    into whether your work is good or not.

    But if Quality is this unique thing - a fundamental building block of
    the Universe, undefinable in terms of anything else - then that
    assumption is kicked away. Our bodies can manipulate matter, and can
    work based on energy, but what limb touches Quality? How can our
    body, or mind, manipulate something so utterly undefinable? And if we
    indeed *cannot* manipulate it then, surely, Quality in the works we
    produce must come from elsewhere, unaffected by our behavior in doing
    it!

    And that's my problem. If there's no behaviour you can do to affect
    the Quality of your writing, then why bother practicing or working
    hard at writing? It won't affect the Quality. And if there is such a
    behaviour, or class of behaviour, then the undefinable nature of
    Quality would be challenged by the existance of that behaviour.

    And yea, I think I'm wrong, too, so I guess I'm really asking to get
    corrected here..

    -- 
    Best regards,
     Mark                            mailto:mark@antelope.nildram.co.uk
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