From: Matt the Enraged Endorphin (mpkundert@students.wisc.edu)
Date: Sun Feb 09 2003 - 22:19:01 GMT
DMB,
Matt said:
Atheists like myself and Kevin don't know what to say when Pro-lifers
defend their position with an invocation of God. We don't think that's a
valid argument because we don't share a crucial premise: belief in the
existence of God. When they reply that the fact that we don't share the
crucial premise doesn't disprove its truth, we can only shrug our shoulders
and say, "But it's still not a valid argument."
DMB said:
I don't see how your argument is any more valid. They believe it and
you don't. So? That's not even an argument.
Matt:
Exactly right. When Kevin and I shrug our shoulders, it's not an argument.
For the sake of expediency, we point to Jefferson's seperation of church
and state and say that vaild public arguments are those where we share
enough of the relevant premises. The believers may think God is relevant,
but we don't: so where do we go? We go to other relevant premises. We
keep reformulating until we reach a point in which argumentation can occur.
To strike up my point, you say, "[Pirsig] puts fundamentalism in a context
that shows pretty damn clearly that principles like the seperation of
church and state are more evolved than religious beliefs. He shows very
clearly why fundamentalism is less valid in terms of informing public
policies." Alright, so when you provide this argument to the believer and
he notes that he does not share the relevant premise, belief in the MoQ,
where do we go next? Presumably we start reformulating. It's all fine and
dandy for us who follow Pirsig's placement of fundamentalism in the MoQ
context, but in public debates, the point is when we are confronted with
people who don't. We can tell a story about why fundamentalism isn't
valid, but stories aren't arguments, no more than a shrug of the shoulders.
Matt
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