From: Allen Barrows (allen_barrows@yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Tue Jun 14 2005 - 12:58:05 BST
Bo: I have done nothing else but whatever twist one makes tries, it
always comes out as saying that mind comes first, i.e: the idealist
part of the S/O aggregate.
Hello Bo again, This is quite a disorganised jumble.
Begin with undifferentiated experience.
Go back to being a baby and follow where that leads and you can begin to see that a mountain of patterns await being stuffed into the undifferentiated aesthetic continuum as Northrop calls it (see anthony McWatts book please)
Only much later can you reject what you are force fed like deciding to become a vegetarian even though your parents eat the flesh of animals.
You are going back through what you have been force fed and one of those patterns was ZMM and here you where indicated many more patterns which lead you to believe that intellect is the value of S/O if you follow me.
David Buchanan has made the same journey and believes the intellect is better understood in different terms but you disagree with him and tell him mind is behind the MOQ it is idealism.
Then you have retained some force fed patterns and not thought for yourself Bo it seems to me because mind has an evolutionary history which began with Descarte and before that we had psyche and before that something else.
From reading the website you point to in your new essay i follow your journey and find it to be more idealist than the MOQ in fact because no matter haow far you try to describe the S/O value it always comes out being valued by something which looks like mind. Saying it is a special outlook makes it even sound like the mind of God. I reckon this is why those of a religious feeling in the group find your ideas most appealing because it supports their faith.
What a mess.
But the MOQ avoids idealism by placing experience first. Here there are shades of patterns in the undifferentiated aesthetic continuum or event stream or DQ if you like corresponding to an evolutionary development which symbolic manipulation has designated as a sq pattern derrived from a Dynamic process. No mind, no god and no fuss.
Thank you,
Allen
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