From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Feb 11 2003 - 20:23:00 GMT
DMB: I'd say no way. Attending mass does not make you free. It is not likely
to precipitate a DQ experience.
I think it comes down to if you want to respect ritual or reject it that
makes you free. Approaching the topic of morality and ritual with the
prejudice that it ought to be shed or rejected will not make you free
either. Shedding of rituals does not precipitate a DQ experience. Rituals
become invisible when they are respected and believed and just DONE,
ritualistically, and it is through them, on top of them, that one sees DQ,
whether one is a Zen monk or a Catholic monk or a Monkee. If they aren't
done ritualistically in full faith, if they are questioned and disrespected,
they suddenly become visible, obvious in their silliness, and that takes up
psychic space and gets in the way of seeing through them to DQ. At that
point, it doesn't matter if they are followed or rejected, the DQ that they
illuminated is hidden from view by the cloud of doubt.
PS, I've changed my email for convenience and privacy, I used to be john66.
Johnny Moral
>From: David Buchanan <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: "'moq_discuss@moq.org'" <moq_discuss@moq.org>
>Subject: RE: MD Pirsig's conception of ritual
>Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 17:28:42 -0700
>
>Sam and all:
>
>Sam said:
>I know you might find it hard to believe, but I'm not trying to grind an
>axe
>with this. I can honestly say that I didn't think about the Mass once when
>I
>was writing it - I just went to the end of chapter 30 and tried to
>summarise
>it in my own words.
>
>DMB says:
>OK. You're not grinding any axes. I'll take your word on that. No problem.
>(But you can't really blame me for suspecting such a thing, can you? I
>mean,
>given the topic and your vocation, its only natural to wonder, eh?)
>
>Sam said:
>Now, would you like to come back with specific amendments to those five
>points, rather than worrying about an agenda that I may or may not have?
>
>DMB says:
>The comments I already posted are not invalidated by my suspicion, which I
>only expressed in the last paragraph and in a way that was not specifically
>linked to any of your numbered assertions. I too looked at chapter 30
>before
>posting, and my comments are only meant to refine, clarify, and specify. I
>mean, removing the suspicion does not alter anything except that last
>paragraph, which we'll pretend I never wrote. Which was only a guess, after
>all....
>
>DMB wondered if an axe was being sharpened for battle:
>If I had to guess what you're getting at, what you're trying to imply, I'd
>say no way. Attending mass does not make you free. It is not likely to
>precipitate a DQ experience. The institutional religions of the West seem
>hell bent on preventing evolution and transcendence. I'm sure Pirsig is not
>suggesting we Westerners become church goers again. Enough for now.
>
>Tag. You're it.
>
>DMB
>
>
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