MD Barfield is Wrong

From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Jun 30 2005 - 12:06:02 BST

  • Next message: ian glendinning: "Re: MD MOQ in time and space"

    Gents,

    Despite claiming to be a fan of Barfield (on the strength of Poetic
    Diction and History in English Words) I hadn't read Saving the
    Appearances until I saw all his "particles" floating past in a couple
    of recent threads.

    I couldn't comment so I just had to read it. In fact I've had the book
    for ages, and now recall why I stopped reading it. His physics is
    completely wrong.

    He's right that one way or another since Kant, philosophy seems to be
    mainly about the difference between (or interface between) what we
    perceive and what is "out there". (whether we're talking "immediate
    experience", the Quality "event" triplet, or Peircean "firstness",
    etc.)

    He's right that most 20th century philsophical writing has ignored the
    implications of "modern physics" - except where written by physicists,
    who understand it, naturally - a big recurring gripe of mine, you'll
    recognise. Barfield is not one.

    He's right that "trees" are more "tangible" than "rainbows" (they do
    more than interact with light for a start). Metaphorically both are
    made of "particles', but quite a different mix of particles on quite
    different physical levels. He's right that we only see light, and we
    only hear sound, everything else is "mental" (alpha or beta thinking).

    But his Netwonian, classical, physics is completely up the creek.

    There is nothing about a rainbow that depends on human (or any
    animalian) eyes seeing, in order for it to exist, individual or
    shared, any more than a tree. The refracted light from rainbows is
    more "diffuse" and "non-localised" than the reflected light from a
    tree, but the light rays (photon streams whatever) are as real in both
    cases, whether eyes exist to see them or not. (All the stuff about
    where in space and relative to distant hills and hands in your field
    of view is garbage - poetic, but garbage none-the-less.) I can make a
    rainbow between me and this computer screen (or behind it) by blowing
    a raspberry in the right place. And so can you.

    His stuff about hearing due to having ears, rather than sensing sound
    waves, is suspiciously close to the same evolutionary fallacy that no
    being could see (sense light) until the eyeball had come to exist.
    Just plain wrong creationist meme.

    (There are particles and there are particles, and as it turns out
    there is information more fundamental to any. But that's another
    story.)

    Should I read on past Chapter 4 (Participation) or does it all depend
    on his erroneous start ? SO So sad. Poor Mr Barfield, such a promising
    poetic start too.

    Ian

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Jun 30 2005 - 12:10:55 BST