From: platootje@netscape.net
Date: Sun Jul 03 2005 - 08:56:44 BST
skutvik@online.no wrote:
>I agree with Mike, but maybe in a sense that he won't approve of.
>Time and space - the scientific kind - are intellectual patterns and
>because the intellectual level is SOM (stripped of its
>metaphysical qualities) we will of course keep them. I would like
>to see anyone capable of "removing" them ;-)
Yes, I've seen some discussions in which SOM gradually developed as the intellectual level, and to be honoust, I have my doubts with that. But anyway, it does not influence my PoV towards space
>
>But the non-scientific time and space did not come into being
>along with intellect? Pre-intellect people surely followed the
>heavenly bodies' rhythm and certainly called this rhythm
>something. Regarding space I guess they more or less took it as
>given, there was no question of where the universe ends and
>such science-induced problems.
They had an experience and called it space... is that what you're saying?
>
>SOM is abandoned when the "M" is taken over by the MOQ, but I
>hope you don't mean that the S/O divide is to be abandoned,
>because that is the intellectual level IMO? Geometric space as
>different from ordinary space? You must elaborate.
Yes, the S/O division must be abandoned or else you keep intellectualizing about MOQ in a SO-way.
By geometric space I mean dimensional space I guess. That what's commenly understood as the universe, without substance in it.
>
>Yes, as a metaphysics SOM is contradictory, but as a static value
>it is great.
But we can't say on a metaphysical level, let's get rid of it, but we keep it as static intellectual pattern because we have no alternative.
>> But
>> from the MOQ point of view there isn't even a need for geometric space,
>> because there is no substance to take up space.
>
>Even if I agree that inorganic patterns aren't substance this gets a
>bit too weird.
'Too weird' has never been an argument against a philosofical theory ;-)
>I would rather say that time and space in themselves (not the
>scientific - maybe this is your "geometric" - kind) are as much
>inorganic patterns as particles and forces.
Whereas I think time and space are the results of the SO PoV that krept into every organism in the organic level and above.
Reinier.
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