Re: MD MOQ and The Moral Society I

From: Arlo J. Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Wed Jul 06 2005 - 02:04:05 BST

  • Next message: Arlo J. Bensinger: "Re: MD MOQ and The Moral Society II"

    Platt,

    I'll have to send this in two parts, to save Horse the trouble of watching for
    lengthy posts that are flagged.

    > No, not the only difference. But it's a vital difference. Let free
    > enterprise flourish and the other restrictions will eventually fall by the
    wayside, as demonstrated by comparing the stagnant economy of China under Mao
    with the China of today.

    Interesting that in your support for "lesser CEP equates more-freedom for the
    majority of citizens", you could only offer a military dictatorship as support
    (I'll get to Cuba).

    I'm not arguing that this difference between the US and NK is not salient, but
    since their entire social realm is enforced by a police state, you'd be hard
    pressed to convince anyone that "less CEP" is the sole causal agent in our
    "being more free".

    Take a country that has more CEP than us, but is not a military dictatorship.
    I'll pick one, since you've refused. Denmark. Are the majority of citizens in
    our country "better off, more-free" than the majority in Denmark?

    > > Are you suggesting that the trade barriers employed by the US and other
    nations have not had any role in harming Cuba's economy?
    >
    > Castro and his friends love to blame the U.S. for Cuba's lousy economy.
    > The problem is not the embargo. It's the command economy which prohibits
    > private enterprise and ownership of property. The U.S. should not
    > subsidize such a regime.

    How a small, island economy with little raw materials (outside certain
    agricultures) can be expected to function while being blocked from
    participating in the world economy because the US does not like its leader, and
    then used as an example of the failure of CEP is, frankly, astounding to me,
    Platt. And should be to anyone reading this in the archives.

    But, fine, I've said my part on this. Let the record show that as evidence that
    "less CEP" causes a better life for the majority of a nation's citizens, Platt
    has demonstrated this to be so because we are "more free" than a brutal
    dictatorship, and have a stronger economy than a tiny, island nation after
    decades of economic embargos from the worlds nations.

    Of course, using such absurd examples is a good way from having to produce
    measures and statistics showing how, for example, the majority of citizens in
    the US are "better off, more-free" than the majority of citizens in Denmark,
    Germany or Japan.

    > > Can you provide an example that is not a brutal military dictatorship, or a
    tiny, island economy subjected to global trade barriers?
    >
    > Laos, North Korea and China are still centrally planned economies. But,
    > but even in those communist countries, free markets are on the rise and
    > should be encouraged. Can you provide examples of command economies
    > which are not "brutal military" dictatorships? (Are there any other kind?)

    Let's not succomb to the slippery slope here, Platt. You've stated that "less
    central economic planning" ensures more freedom and better lives for the
    majority of citizens.

    I know how much you want to prove this by descending into dictatorial examples.
    But let's stay on track.

    Less CEP = higher Quality for the majority, right?

    Were the majority of citizens in the US better off in the late 1890s when there
    was significantly less CEP? Your logic would indicate so. Take the daily lives
    of the majority of citizens in 1890, you'd argue that overall they were better
    off than we are?

    Or, consider any of the non-dictatorial nations I've mentioned (or supply your
    own), these nations arguably have "more CEP" than we do (although we certainly
    have a significant amount too). You would say that the lives of the majority of
    Americans are "better off, more free" than those of the majority of Danes,
    Germans or Japanese?

    Based on what measures... other than "gut instinct" or patriotic ferver. Which
    brings me to jump to Part II...

    Arlo

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