From: Arlo Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Mon Jul 11 2005 - 21:48:30 BST
Greetings Mark,
[Arlo to Platt]
>The whole point of it being covert is that by definition it is
>internalized and invisible <snip>
>
>At any rate, let's just agree that there is some amount of covert
>coercion that occurs that makes people internalize behaviors that
>they would, in the absence of such coercion, not find Quality.
>Advertising and speech-making, as well as ideological assumptions are
>just a few I would argue contain covert coercive components.
>msh 7-11-05:
>I think there's an element missing from this discussion. In addition
>to covert and overt coercion, there's another more direct way in
>which people may be persuaded to act against Quality: Lie to them
>from trusted positions, or deprive them of accurate information, or
>make the retrieval of accurate information so difficult and time-
>consuming that very few people are able to do it and still have
>something like a normal life.
Of course. And thanks for pointing these out. (In my defense I can only say
that I've said the ones I mentioned "are just a few" :-)) But your point is
well-taken and quite correct: people make Quality decisions based on
information that has been presented to them.
"Trusted positions" deceit, I'd argue, is related to the larger problem of
"blindness" that is a covert coercive force in the internalization of an
ideology. Hence the "everything Bush says is truth, everything Clinton said
was a lie" (to use one example) dichotomy. Blindness to this covert
coercive force is one thing critical inquiry strives to overcome. But you
know this, and I am preaching to the choir.
But it is worth noting that "information lapses" can occur from the
deliberate withholding, manipulation, or reformation of information by
people (such as in cover-ups, politicized discourse and the like), and by
willful dismissals of available information occurring as the result of
"ideological blindness". Both, perhaps you'd agree, are quite prevalent in
our society.
>These three related methods of persuasion are usually interwoven.
>Anyone who evaluates the political deceptions that went on during the
>recent runup to war, in both the US and Britain, will have a clear
>understanding of what I mean. As will anyone who thinks about the
>way commercial advertising works.
Agreed. I think it bears much to the covert coercions of institutionalized
power.
>This is why, in a moral society, there will be easy access to the
>full spectrum of ideas and information on any issue of public
>concern, including political and consumer policy. This in turn means,
>among other things, that wealth and power cannot be allowed do
>control the public airwaves, or to dominate the free press.
Completely agree.
>People are not stupid, but, without accurate information on which to
>base our decisions, any of us may unintentionally decide to act
>against our own best interests.
Very well said.
>arlo before:
>I think there have been thread on empiricism and the like, and what
>constitutes "fact". I'm not an expert in that field, so I'll plead
>ignorance. I'll just state that as close as you can get to valid and
>reliable statements is important. Whether you can ever get fully
>there, or even if it is important to do so, I have too little
>knowledge to cast a comment.
>
>msh 7-11-05:
>I agree. It's not possible to obtain mathematical certainty about
>any historical or even scientific "facts." I don't know any sane
>person who says it is. This does not mean we cannot approach
>certainty on these issues. If 999 people are running out of a
>theater screaming "Fire" we can reasonably make the obvious
>inference, even if the thousandth person is only complaining about
>the popcorn. This is why it is so important to have for our
>evaluation the widest possible spectrum of ideas and observations.
I like the words "approaching certainty". It emphasizes degrees between the
otherwise dichotomous "unsupported opinion" and "absolute fact". Thanks for
that.
Arlo
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