Re: MD MOQ and The Moral Society

From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Sat Jul 16 2005 - 16:39:03 BST

  • Next message: Matt Kundert: "RE: MD The intellectual mess still not cleared up."

    On 16 Jul 2005 at 7:22, Platt Holden wrote:

    > msh 7-15-05:
    > You've offered the above Pirsig quote as the "moral underpinning" of
    > your belief that government should not regulate the behavior of its
    > citizens, even if it's been shown that certain behavior is
    > potentially destructive of society. Starting with the quote you've
    > offered, please provide a line of argument and evidence that leads
    > to your conclusion.

    platt 7-16-05:
    No where at no time have I said what you say I said.

    msh 7-16-05:
    Ok, then I've misunderstood you. My apologies. Which part of this
    paragraph is wrong? Are you agreeing with me that government should
    regulate the behavior of its citizens when such behavior is shown to
    be destructive of society?

    > msh 7-15-05:
    > In your hypothetical situation, no one is forced to give blood.
    > Healthy people who don't want to give blood during a shortage may
    > contribute through paying an increased tax. Another option is to
    > give tax rebates to blood-donors. Anyway, I fail to see how my
    > quick response to a hypothetical question has made your point that
    > I'll "justify any government intrusion into private lives to 'save
    > lives' including blood-letting."

    platt 7-16-05:
    Taxes are a government intrusion into private lives backed by force.
    If you don't believe it, don't pay them and see what happens. Then
    write to tell us.

    msh 7-16-05:
    But you say below that it's ok to collect taxes for public services,
    if those taxes have been approved by a vote. Or have I
    misunderstood you, again? So what do you mean when you say "Taxes
    are a government intrusion into private lives backed by force?"

    msh before:
    > Or, better still, let's get back to the core of this thread. I
    > posted the following, but got no response from you:

    platt 7-16-05:
    OK. Since forcing people to give blood, donate their organs and
    otherwise give up their private parts doesn't phase your sense of
    human dignity, I'll try a different tack.

    msh 7-16-05:
    I'll leave this comment in, for the record. This is an ad hominem
    attack, without argument. I'll ignore it.

    > msh 7-12-05:
    > Your slippery slope has proved to be non-existent. We already
    > collect taxes for police, fire and EMT services, and thus are
    > "forcing others by law" to save lives. Why should a tax-based
    > system for providing life-saving medical services be regarded
    > differently?
    >
    > In fact, since most police work is about protecting property, it
    > could be argued that a tax-based health system that will positively
    > affect millions of lives is an even higher moral priority than most
    > police services.
    >
    > What is your MOQ-based moral justification for tax-based police and
    > fire services?

    platt 7-16-05:
    In most communities, those have been voted for.

     msh 7-15-05:
    And why does it not apply to life-saving medical
     services?

    platt 7-16-05:
    Except for EMT and emergency room services, in most communities those
    haven't been voted for.

    msh 7-16-05:
    This is a Platteral Shift. Let's assume you have the opportunity to
    vote on a referendum which calls for a shifting of tax funds from non-
    life-saving police work to a service which provides life-saving drugs
    to people who need them and can't afford them.

    What would be your MOQ-based moral justification for voting against
    such a referendum?

    platt 7-16-05:
    Now if you want to impose Hillary care on U.S. citizens so they have
    to wait for weeks to get basic medical care, why don't you just come
    out an say so?

    Next you'll being saying the MOQ justifies a minimum guaranteed
    income for everybody. Geez.

    msh 7-16-05:
    I'll leave these remarks for the record. These comments are meant to
    disparage my argument without addressing it, and to evade honest
    discussion. I will ignore them.

    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)

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