From: Mati Palm-Leis (mpalm@merr.com)
Date: Wed Jul 20 2005 - 07:20:46 BST
Paul,
I would like state upfront, there are some things that over my head but this
idea of time and space as an intellectual pattern is interesting. I would
like to take a different slant on it. As you know I am in favor of Bo's SOL
idea and I would approach it from that perspective.
The idea of time and space is relative to the organism that experiences its.
Animals do not know time and space in the same sense as humans but they
experience it as part of their lives and it is seamless to their existence.
Humans knew about time space long ago as it became part of the social level
as it evolved. It marked the seasons, or a life time etc... Time and space
as scientific abstract ideas have further established with advanced
scientific methods. Today with the advancement of such methods we can
speculate on patterns of time and space that seems to defy the real world as
we know it. (i.e. timemachines)
You wrote:
I talked about space and time being intellectual patterns used to
cope with, predict, and control behaviour of inorganic patterns, not about
the existence of an inorganic proto-intellect. ...
One of the criticisms of Bo's it that it assumes; all intellectual patterns
are based on S/O divide or Bo's SOL. If a pattern can't be based on the S/O
divide then it isn't an intellectual pattern. I think then some may regard
ideas such as time and space to be independent intellectual ideas that have
no possible direct connection to SOL. I would like to suggest that there is
and that concepts such as time and space are not independent intellectual
patterns but their very existence is tethered to SOL.
I will regress briefly to suggest the social and intellectual values are
born to our abilities as humans to reflect values. An example of social
values of time and space might be identification of constellations and their
placement. This process of consciousness that made this possible was pretty
sophisticated for its day, but it did not represent an intellectual value.
The reason being is the "value" of identify constellation was still based on
and reflected the social mythos of the day. If the Greeks such as Plato and
Aristotle can be credited for SOM in that time period then something
interested can be speculated. With the advent of SOM we have birth of
scientific method (based on the objective approached) that allows us to push
the understanding of such values as time and space to a new level. But
regardless of how far that knowledge goes it is tethered to have meaning to
us (the subject) to have any value. I can't think if any scientific
advancement that didn't have to answer the question, "So what is in it for
us as humankind." To find an answer requires an intellectual reflection
based mostly on reason. Failure to provide a reasonable response is a
failure in the value of such a science.
Anyway that is enough for now.
Mati
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