RE: MD generalised propositional truths

From: Matt Kundert (pirsigaffliction@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Jul 22 2005 - 04:02:04 BST

  • Next message: ian glendinning: "Re: MD Intellect as Consciousness (formerly Collective Consciousness)"

    Hey Erin,

    Erin said:
    When you gave your story what it looked like to me is that you had
    deconstructed your beliefs about the concept God and then had this useless
    concept hanging. You would like it to fade away but know it won't so would
    encourage people who do find it useful to expand it to be less exclusive.
    Is this a correct understanding of your position?

    Matt:
    Sort of. What happened to me when I was thirteen was certainly not a
    deconstruction. That implies far too much self-consciousness. It was more
    like suddenly finding myself out of place, looking around and going, "Whoa,
    hey, I gotta' believe what for why?" I just never took God seriously. He
    never motivated me. He was never in my vocabulary of reflection. (What's
    interesting, though I think periphery, is that I became a self-identified
    atheist, ya' know, picking at believers for sport, but it was after reading
    Pirsig that I softened, eventually to the point of not even wanting to be
    identified as an atheist.) In fact, I think this is most often what happens
    for individuals and is more analogous to what happens to a culture as it
    "drops" a concept. Deconstruction is a process on the way towards dropping
    for culture, but an individual who _needs_ to deconstruct is somebody who
    isn't ready to give it up. Like Nietzsche's deconstructions of God. I
    don't think Nietzsche ever got over God. They played a very live role in
    who he was. Deconstruction is like a last step of the ladder before you
    realize, "Hey, why am I climbing this ladder?" Then you just toss the
    ladder. A related example are the foundational deconstructionists like
    myself. I think I was too entranced by Platonism to just give it up. So I
    have to keep deconstructing it to remind myself what not to be. In a sense,
    I've given it up and could get along just fine without deconstructing
    Platonism. But in another sense, I'm obsessed with philosophy, it is an
    important part of my reflection. And when I reflect, I sometimes have to
    deconstruct to ward off the demons, like a ritualistic exorcism. Someday,
    there won't be any demons. But until then, I have to ward off my own and
    help others ward off there's.

    So, when you say that you "had deconstructed all the beliefs that were
    taught to me but it never occurred to me that I could reconstruct the
    concept to better fit who I was and what I believed," I think that fits with
    the way I view the ghosts that haunt us. These ghosts, of course, are the
    same ghosts that Pirsig told us about in ZMM: the ghosts of Newton, Locke,
    Paul, Moses. They aren't necessarily demons, but they aren't necessarily
    fairy godmothers, either. Which ones are which are determined by the course
    of evolution. One might say that you had tried to purge yourself of the
    ghost of God, but it wouldn't leave. It was discombobulated for a time, not
    really knowing what it was doing since you kept thrashing it. At the time
    of deconstruction, it was a demon to you. But as it became more and more
    pallid, you eventually came to see how to restore its color, how to fill it
    out and make it a companion again. My own ghost is too pallid for use. But
    I've learned to see His reflection in Quality (let alone other people's
    faces), the new ghost that haunts me.

    So my suggestions are two-fold: to people who, like me, don't take God
    seriously, i.e. don't use Him for purposes of reflection, simply don't worry
    about God. I think in the long run it would be better for our culture to
    not use religious vocabularies. But in the short run (which I think
    eventually leads to the long run goal), I might use a religious vocabulary
    to urge others towards visions of God that are better.

    On communication, reconstruction, and poetic redescription, I think we are
    more or less in the same place. Poetic redescription, or reconstruction, is
    the same thing as a new construction. When you change the language around
    you (which you cannot help but do when you use it), you are creating it
    anew. These creations aren't ex nihilo, though. They are created with the
    materials presented to you by your culture, language that is zuhanden,
    ready-to-hand. The more powerful your willed poetry (the more "catchy" it
    is), the more people will understand you because they will have picked it
    up. People may not exactly understand you, just as a lot of people don't
    understand God or Shakespeare. But the most powerful of poets (like Moses
    and Shakespeare) shift our language, shift our self-understandings by
    convincing us to use their language, their vocabularies. So, someday our
    children may be talking about Erin and her God.

    Matt

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