From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Sat Jul 23 2005 - 12:51:00 BST
Hi Bo,
I appreciate your joining the Moral Society discussion. As usual, your
views are refreshing and challenging.
PH (previously)
> > Sure, like capturing and punishing those who aided and abetted the
> > British terrorists. Thankfully by blowing themselves up, those who set
> > off the bombs saved society the trouble of hunting them down and bringing
> > them to justice. Biological forces that threaten society must be met
> > forcefully. The problem, as Pirsig points, out is that a lot of
> > intellectuals have taken biology's side -- like those who sympathize with
> > terrorists.
>
> I agree generally, it's just the biological part that sounds a little odd
> in this context.
As I see it, "crime" in the Pirsig lexicon is biological forces vs.social
forces. There's no doubt in my mind that terrorists are criminals.
> Social value is something much more fundamental - even
> "frightening" - than the civil safety and welfare, and I think the Islam vs
> West issue is part of the social vs intellect struggle that has raged since
> ...??. The Western societies are intellect-dominated and it is the
> spreading the "democratic" message (among many more) to the Islamic region
> that frightens/angers the activists so much.
I agree with your analysis. It agrees with Pirsig's own. But, we can
always find excuses for why people commit crimes -- insanity,
passion, poverty, religion, whatever. Whatever the excuse, there are
untold thousands who could legitimately offer the same excuse yet don't
commit crimes. Thus, there can never be an excuse for the act itself.
> In Africa for instance Islam may be a very good idea as a shore
> against biological (sex) drives of the Central African population
> where AIDS threatens to wipe out whole generations.
Now there's an idea I hadn't ever considered. Old Victorian morality
might serve the same purpose without the ancillary evils of the Islamic .
social code.
> But in
> Europe and USA Islam it's a failure and what the fanatics hope to
> achieve is a great puzzle. If anything the terror attacks has just
> alienated the Western population (some Norwegian women who
> earlier had found headscarves and submission was romantic
> have now come to their senses)
>
> But - sigh - social value is not reason, it is emotions, thus
> reasonable arguments may be wasted and if the terror continues
> and the the new recruits come from within, then the Mosques and
> other closed quarters will possibly have to be put under
> surveillance. There are those who see this as the end of
> democracy and just what the terrorists want, but during WW2 the
> Japanese in USA were interned, still, it all returned to normal
> after the war. Intellect as a value level will of course not succumb
> if some of its patterns temporarily is suspended .
I agree. This business of tolerance and political correctness will get us
all killed yet. Here in the states there's a hue and cry against "racial
profiling" so that, for instance, bags at subway stations are checked
randomly rather than rationally. Not to focus on young olive-skinned men
praying to Allah and smelling like flower water with bulky clothes and
fiddling nervously with bags is suicidal.
Platt
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