Re: MD MOQ Society and Health Care

From: Arlo J. Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Fri Aug 05 2005 - 20:19:51 BST

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    Hi Platt,

    [Arlo had said]
    I could just as easily be arguing for community health care from this
    perspective, as from a Marxist one. But fear of gulags serves propaganda
    better, doesn't it? In the end, I'm arguing for this from (what I believe to
    be) a MOQ perspective.

    [Platt replied]
    It's heartwarming to know you are an advocate of Christian morality and
    that you think the MOQ presents Christian morality in disguise. I wonder
    how many MD'ers agree with you?

    [Arlo]
    I'm sure you are the only MD'er who is attempting to read my words this way (or
    try to portray them distorted as such). Yet, I'll reply. Of course, just
    because Christianity (and nearly every religious worldview) and the MOQ both
    promote the value of individual life over social wealth does not make the
    synonomous. Christianity's morals derive from the belief that all people are
    the children of God, and are thus derivations of the Divine. The MOQ's view is
    that the individual is a collection of ideas, and ideas are a higher moral
    level than social level patterns. And also that individuals, as collections of
    ideas, are potential sources of social and intellectual evolution.

    My point, which I'm sure was clear to everyone else, was that you immediately
    debase to Fear-Marx-Gulag propaganda at the mention of morality that values the
    individual over wealth. Certainly Marx would argue that lives of individuals
    are more moral than wealth. But so would Jesus. So does Pirsig. So did Ghandi.
    When one talks about community supported health care, why don't you roll out
    "fear Jesus" propaganda?

    [Arlo previously]
    What is "worthy of public support through taxation" if not placing these at a
    higher moral level than your and my "right" to accumulate wealth? If you place
    the right to accumulate wealth higher than, say, public education, why do you
    support it? Why not argue that no education should be publically funded, thus
    protecting the wealth of the individual?

    [Platt]
    Have previously responded to all of this. Look up our old exchanges and
    reread them.

    [Arlo]
    OK. I did. I can't find any post that explains why you roll out Marx-Gulag fear
    propaganda when publically supported health care is mentioned, but don't when
    publically supported education or state parks are. Could you direct me to one?

    What you've said is that if the majority voted for health care, you'd support
    it. And that you feel it can/should be capable of being voted away. Do you feel
    the same way about public education and state parks? Should a community have
    the right to vote away public education? State Parks? Libraries? Why is
    health-care different?

    Why should you, by vote, get to determine if public money is spent for John
    Doe's dialysis, or that he is left to die?

    How would you feel about community-based repayment? That is, for people who lack
    capital means, but are given life-saving treatment, to use the "intellect" that
    society protected to repay society through such things as delivering meals to
    shut in, teaching literacy, or to use particular skills (such as an architect
    repaying society by designing a town hall, or community center, which can then
    be built by labor that is also repaying the community for health-services)?

    [Arlo previously]
    When did I say "no one is entitled to keep part of what s/he earns"?

    [Platt]
    Just about every time you turn around and propose another government
    program. :-)

    [Arlo]
    Which means you advocating this too when you said you supported publically
    -supported state parks... you evil Marxist, you.

    Arlo

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