From: david buchanan (dmbuchanan@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Aug 07 2005 - 19:02:34 BST
Scott and all MOQers:
>DMB quotes:
>Pirsig in ZAMM p143:
>"In all of the Oriental religions great value is placed on the Sanskrit
>doctrine of Tat tvam asi, "Thou art that," which asserts that everything
>you
>think you are and everything you think you perceive are undivided. To
>realize fully this lack of division is to become enlightened."
>
>From Campbell's THOU ART THAT: Transforming Religous Metaphor:
>"Already in the 8th century B.C., in the Chhandogya Upanisad, the key word
>to such a meditation is announced; TAT TVAM ASI, "Thou art That", or "You
>yourself are It!".
In reply, Scott dragged in the "Middle Way":
>One cannot say "thou art That".
>One cannot say :"thou art not That".
>One cannot say "thou art both That and not That".
>One cannot say "thou art neither That nor not That".
>
>One cannot say "everything is divided".
>One cannot say "everything is undivided".
>One cannot say "everything is both divided and undivided".
>One cannot say "everything is neither divided nor undivided".
dmb says:
One cannot say what you mean. Or rather, you cannot say what you mean. As I
understand it, you are once again using a different form of the idea in an
effort to undermine the very same idea. The idea behind the phrase, 'Thou
art that' is all about getting past the infinite pairs of opposites that we
used to interpret the world. Its all about realizing the undivided reality
behind those conceptual pairs of opposites. And as I understand it, your
'middle way' is just another way to express this same idea. To insist that
we "cannot say" that it is one or the other in that pair of opposites points
to the same paradoxical truth about the undivided reality.
And yes, the terms 'divided' and 'undivided' are one such pair. So please
spare me the comeback where you point this out and once again
uncomprehendingly posit the logic of contradictory identity.
Sorry about the level of hostility here, Scott, but it really has become
tiresome.
So far, it has illuminated nothing and has only served to short-circuit
potentially fruitful conversations. Its become a real drag. I hereby beg you
to give it a rest.
Thanks,
dmb
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