From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Feb 22 2003 - 21:01:07 GMT
Hi DMB, Sam and Platt, too.
I'll go further out on the limb in my email Platt before responding to
Platt's critiques, which I want to think about a little more. My assertion
was that the levels can be differentiated mainly by the physical scale that
the patterns exist at, as opposed to by whether we think they are cool or
not, or whether we consider something an idea as opposed to an instinctual
thought.
Sam said:
Good point about celebrity though - that's an aspect of the social level
which doesn't fall naturally into a description of ritual. There must be
others, also centring on social roles.
I humbly assert:
Using my scale concept (which I don't believe is to be found in Lila),
celebrity acts on a large scale, and the larger the scale, the more the
celebrity. When people across the country all start gooning out over
someone, that is a large scale pattern. On a person to person to basis,
people lose their celebrity. To truly interact with Robert Redford
socially, you have to stop treating him as a celebrity. Social interactions
are at a small, person-to-person, scale, whereas intellectual patterns occur
as patterns on top of people who may have never even met and don't even
speak the same language.
DMB says:
Exactly. The Giant, the city or the nation as a superorganism capable of
exploitiation, war and genocide, isn't the kind of thing we'd usually
associate with ritual. But surely this is part of the social level too.
I'd say surely the Giant is an intellectual pattern. It is a pattern that
uses society to exist the same way society uses human animals to exist. To
the extent that society is seen as "the giant" with habits and patterns of
its own, and we aren't just talking about the inner workings of society
itself, it is clearly an intellectual pattern. A tendency or habit of
society that intellectuals have noticed on a wide scale through time and
space. And to the extent that the Giant can be controlled or steered, it
would have to be done with Intellectual oversight. Even if the intellectual
idea is that society is a Giant can't be controlled or steered, the Giant is
still an intellectual pattern.
I think these are both attempts to take "bad" things and say "these can't be
intellectual, they must be social."
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