From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Feb 23 2003 - 02:21:34 GMT
Matt, Sam, Platt, All:
MATT:
> I'm pretty sure I remember reading in Lila once a line like, "The
> MoQ exists whether we know it or not," or something along those lines (for
> the life of me I can't remember where it was). If that line exists, or
> lines like it, then support is given to the Platt/Bo interpretation.
Platt found the PIRSIG quote:
"Actually the issue before him was not whether there should be a
metaphysics of Quality or not. There already is a metaphysics of
Quality" (9)
Platt explained the quote:
Perhaps this is the line you have a vague recollection of. He then goes
on to explain why SOM is MOQ in disguise and why it's impossible to
create a perfect (absolute) metaphysics, one that will "win every time."
All I am arguing, and have ever argued, is that the MOQ is a better
metaphysics than its rivals, including Rorty's metaphysics that denies
metaphysics.
DMB says:
I looked at the quote in context (chapter 9) and have a different take. I'd
urge Matt to take another look at that chapter because it offers so many
hows and whys with respect to metaphysics. It gives a clear idea of what
Pirsig thinks metaphysics is all about, and its plain to see that he's not
taking things too seriously. The half-remembered line with a little more
context,....
"If you're going to talk about Quality at all you have to be ready to answer
someone like Rigel. you have to have a ready-made Metaphysics of Quality
that you can snap at him like some catechism. Phaedrus didn't have a
Catechism of Quality and that's why he got hit. Actually the issue before
him was not whether there should be a metaphysics of Quality or not. There
already IS a metaphysics of Quality. SOM is in fact a metaphysics in which
the first divisin of Quality - the first slice of undivided experience - is
into subjects and objects. Once you make that slice,..."
DMB continues:
I'd like to point out that calling his MOQ a "ready-made catechism" shows
that he's not making any absolutist claims. He talks about slicing and
cutting and making it up. With that in mind and the fuller context, I think
you can see that Pirsig is not saying that "SOM is MOQ in disguise" as Platt
suggests, nor is he making any claims about eternal truth, as you seem to
imply, but is only saying that reality - undivided experience - is already
divided by our conceptual systems. If that's not enough, he ends the same
paragraph saying,
"And once he'd seen this he also saw a huge number of ways in which Quality
can be divided. Subjects and objects are just one of the ways."
Platt said:
Perhaps if we agreed that "theories of reality" was a more useful :-) term
than "metaphysics," some of our disagreements would dissolve. Then
Rorty's theory, stripped of its arcane vocabulary, would be seen as, "All
theories of reality are equally good and therefore equally worthless."
DMB says:
I think its only fair that we be allowed to use the word "metaphysics" here.
We're here to discuss the metaphysics of Quality, after all. A certain
circle or school of anti-metaphysical philosophers may use it to refer to "a
nest and brood of dualisms" or "the eternal quest for ultimate absolutes" or
whatever, but that shouldn't prevent us from using it in the conventional
sense, which is simply a branch of philosophy. In fact, I think its very
uncool of Matt to use such an important word in such an unusual way. Sure,
anyone is free to use specific and arcane meanings of words, but I think the
USER has the responsibility to avoid the misunderstandings that might
result. Most obviously, providing precise definitons and explaining things
would help alot.
Thanks,
DMB
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