From: Horse (horse@darkstar.uk.net)
Date: Thu Aug 11 2005 - 01:55:58 BST
Hi Platt
On 9 Aug 2005 at 9:29, Platt Holden wrote:
> PH:
> > > Doing nothing costs nothing in time, energy or money but has the
> > > potential for a beneficial outcome. Much harm can be done by well
> > > intentioned do- gooders.
>
> H:
> > As well as much good! What I always find incredible about the denigration
> > of do- gooders by certain parties is that, according to the MoQ, to do good
> > is of the highest moral order. The MoQ ia all about good and doing good but
> > somehow this is seen by some as wrong. There's a lot of twisted logic going
> > on around here.
>
> Definition of do-gooder from Merriam-Webster: "an earnest often naive
> humanitarian or reformer."
The operative here is naïve - nothing wrong with humanitarian or reformer. But the
pejorative use of this term - this is how it's mostly used - is just an ad hominem attack
intended to belittle the humanitarian or reformer and I trust you remember what Pirsig
said about that? Additionally Pirsig (Phaedrus) was attacked in this way by Rigel:
Rigel continued,“One of the things that angered me most about your book was its
appearance at a time when so many young people all over the country put themselves
above the law with criminal acts —draft dodgers, arsonists, political traitors,
revolutionists, even assassins ,all of them justifying themselves with the belief that they
alone can see the God-given truth that no one else can see.
“You talked for chapter after chapter about how to preserve the underlying form of a
motorcycle,but you didn ’ t say a single word about how to preserve the underlying form
of society.And so your book may have been a big seller among some of these radicals
and cult groups who are looking for that sort of thing.They ’re looking for anything that
will justify their doing as they please.And you gave them support.You gave them
encouragement.” He felt his voice becoming angry.“I’ve no doubt that your intentions
were good,but whatever your intentions may have been it was the devil ’s work you were
doing.”
So is Pirsig a naïve humanitarian or reformer cos according to what you say this must be
the case.
How about a new definition of do-gooder, one that isn't pejorative, which goes along the
lines of someone who can see the difference between right and wrong and makes an
honest attempt to do the right thing.
>
> From Pirsig: "God, I don't want to have any more enthusiasm for big
> programs full of social planning for big masses of people that leave
> individual Quality out."
So don't leave individual Quality out. Think globally, act locally. Do some good today!
>
> Example of road to hell paved by do-gooders: In 25 years since Johnson
> declared war on poverty, taxpayers have been bilked $3 trillion. Between
> 1965 and 1974, unmarried females on welfare rose from 4.3 to 10.8
> million. In 1960 illegitimacy among blacks was 23 percent, but 1999 is had
> climbed to 70 percent.
Examples of good being done:
Ending of slavery
Universal suffrage
Destruction of aparteid
the National health service
minimum wage
etc. etc. etc.
See? Lots of good can be done even if it is in big program format.
>
> I'im sure your familiar with law of unintended consequences. An excellent
> description of the law can be found at:
>
> http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/UnintendedConsequences.html
>
Very interesting. It should be re-titled the conservatives charter. Don't screw with the
status quo. In other words don't be dynamic cos it'll bite you on the ass. God help us!
What a way to live.
> The twisted logic comes into play in believing you know what's best for
> other people and forcing them to conform to your ideology. The Inquisition
> was based on doing good by saving souls from eternal damnation.
No it wasn't. It was based on the church's desire to make everyone do what it wanted
through the use of torture and murder so it could maintain and increase it's power. Come
on Platt, now who's being naïve?
See ya
Horse
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