Re: MD Self-Evident MoQ Truths

From: Scott Roberts (jse885@cox.net)
Date: Thu Aug 11 2005 - 02:26:48 BST

  • Next message: Horse: "RE: MD Conflict"

    Ian,

    Ian said:
    I don't think there are any significant gaps, and the MoQ itself
    claims not to have any gaps. You raised the gaps.

    Scott:
    You claimed that there are no gaps to be filled. ("I feel it is explicit
    that MoQ does not "require" god as part of its explanation, there are no
    gaps waiting to be filled." I replied "I fail to see how the MOQ has no gaps
    waiting to be filled". One such gap is the supposed development of
    consciousness from a universe without it. Another is the supposed coming
    into being of language. How has the MOQ explained those events?

    Ian continued:
    As it happens "valued information being meaningful if there is
    consciousness" is the kind of thing I do believe, and don't see any
    conflict within the (working definition of the) MoQ.

    Scott:
    You left out the "only", which changes the meaning considerably. If that was
    a mistake (and if it wasn't, your belief is obviously true), and you believe
    that "valued information being meaningful ONLY if there is consciousness",
    then can I conclude that you have changed your mind, and now agree with me
    that consciousness and intellect (conscious information-processing) are,
    along with value, ubiquitous? (I'm referring to an earlier post of yours in
    which you maintained that there is value and information at the inorganic
    level. I claimed that value and information imply consciousness, but you
    then claimed it didn't.)

    Ian said:
    It's the difference between saying "MoQ is wrong, it needs fixing" and
    "MoQ is right, and can only improve if we promote and use it." Both
    equally valid, just two sides of a line.

    Scott:
    Since my disagreements are at a very basic level, I agree that I am on the
    "wrong -- needs fixing" side of that line. But I think the fixing is not all
    that traumatic, once one gets over certain modernist habits of thinking. The
    moral message that intellect trumps the social is preserved, for instance.
    Indeed, it is strengthened.

    - Scott

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Aug 11 2005 - 05:39:28 BST