From: Scott Roberts (jse885@cox.net)
Date: Thu Aug 11 2005 - 02:26:48 BST
Ian,
Ian said:
I don't think there are any significant gaps, and the MoQ itself
claims not to have any gaps. You raised the gaps.
Scott:
You claimed that there are no gaps to be filled. ("I feel it is explicit
that MoQ does not "require" god as part of its explanation, there are no
gaps waiting to be filled." I replied "I fail to see how the MOQ has no gaps
waiting to be filled". One such gap is the supposed development of
consciousness from a universe without it. Another is the supposed coming
into being of language. How has the MOQ explained those events?
Ian continued:
As it happens "valued information being meaningful if there is
consciousness" is the kind of thing I do believe, and don't see any
conflict within the (working definition of the) MoQ.
Scott:
You left out the "only", which changes the meaning considerably. If that was
a mistake (and if it wasn't, your belief is obviously true), and you believe
that "valued information being meaningful ONLY if there is consciousness",
then can I conclude that you have changed your mind, and now agree with me
that consciousness and intellect (conscious information-processing) are,
along with value, ubiquitous? (I'm referring to an earlier post of yours in
which you maintained that there is value and information at the inorganic
level. I claimed that value and information imply consciousness, but you
then claimed it didn't.)
Ian said:
It's the difference between saying "MoQ is wrong, it needs fixing" and
"MoQ is right, and can only improve if we promote and use it." Both
equally valid, just two sides of a line.
Scott:
Since my disagreements are at a very basic level, I agree that I am on the
"wrong -- needs fixing" side of that line. But I think the fixing is not all
that traumatic, once one gets over certain modernist habits of thinking. The
moral message that intellect trumps the social is preserved, for instance.
Indeed, it is strengthened.
- Scott
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