From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Thu Aug 25 2005 - 01:20:56 BST
Hi Sam, and Erin making the same point,
On 24 Aug 2005 at 9:16, Sam Norton wrote:
For all the antagonism towards religion, it's remarkable how much like a
'cult' the MoQ has become. To that extent, all credit to Struan and Glenn
for exposing it, however mixed and dishonourable their motives.
msh:
See my first post to this thread for an idea of how much honor and
credit S&G deserve. As for the cult part, it sounds like Erin agrees
with you:
erin said:
I don't think this is a cult but I agree that this place is "cultish"
in how MoQ dissenters are treated. If Richard Loggins was known to be
a dissenter on the list I doubt he would have ever been invited to
even doing the paper. To be supported (trusted?) here you can only
offer praise and never criticism.. If somebody disagrees with
something they are dismissed as "not understanding" which is not
always a fair assessment. So when a dissenter disguises himself by
lavishing praise and is thus praised for their work it does kind of
say something. What he did was wrong but it does bother me that a
dissenter can not offer his ideas freely here...he has to disguise
himself as "worshipper" to get any acceptance.
msh:
Funny, my experience is just the opposite. Anyone who bothers to
carefully read what I write knows very well that I am far from a MOQ
purist; I've openly rejected the literal truth of the idea that
Quality creates subjects and objects, and have clearly said that
believing so is no different than believing that God created and the
maintains the universe. It's hard to imagine a more dissenting
opinion that that.
Nevertheless, when I emailed Ant saying I would be unable to attend
the conference, he wrote back urging me to juggle my plans. I have
no doubt that he would have been delighted if I had been able to
present a paper. DMB, with whom I've had numerous disagreements
about the so-called mystical underpinnings of the MOQ, also wrote to
me, urging me to attend. These are not the actions of people looking
to maintain the sanctity of their "inner circle."
No, to be supported here, you need to be able to express yourself
well, to understand what you read, and be willing to defend your
assertions with reason and evidence, when challenged. At least
that's my take on the issue, FWIW. I don't know what S&G did to be
booted off the list but, considering the vile racism and jingoism
that continues to bypass the censors on a daily basis, it must have
been pretty obscene indeed.
Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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