From: Laycock, Jos (OSPT) (Jos.Laycock@OFFSOL.GSI.GOV.UK)
Date: Mon Sep 12 2005 - 12:14:09 BST
Hi Bo,
Firstly, I admit that I lazily drift between, awareness and perception, and
thus far have meant the same thing by both, consciousness is different
however, and in my scheme has been restricted to biological awareness.
Back to dictionaries though, and according to Wikipedia, awareness includes
no interpretation, but perception does, consciousness is different again,
and all definitions seem to start specifically on self awareness.
I will re-think the way I have been using these words to make it clearer
what I mean.
To the rest, you pretty much understand me correctly, although seem to imply
that the "mystic static patterns" occur as a result of consciousness, (using
the word "behind" rather than "of") when I had them as "real"***.
(***caveats below acknowledged).
As to inorganic (and if we're broadening the spectrum lets not forget about
the sub-inorganic chaotic level) awareness/consciousness/perception
(whatever), I am not sure that it is necessitated at all, cant we just do
without?
I think that it is not unreasonable to assert that certain phenomena only
occur at or above certain static levels, perhaps awareness only first kicks
in, as a product of certain biological static patterns. (There would be a
consistency in this, with some of my earlier posts directly relating to
consciousness, did you read any of these?)
Jos
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
[mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of skutvik@online.no
Sent: 12 September 2005 10:02
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Subject: RE: MD The intelligence fallacy (was Rhetoric)
Jos
I discovered this message from last week that I hadn't responded
to. I am behind in my exchange so please be patient.
9 Sep. you wrote:
> On the subject of "expressions" described below,
> I feel that these define the awareness that exists at each level, not
> the limits of the static patterns themselves.
Principally the MOQ rejects SOM's (or its own intellectual level's)
dualisms - in this case awareness/ patterns themselves - but
.....(continued below).
> Do you accept that the
> awareness is different from the patterns?.
..... ***in the spite of MOQ being the system of which intellect is a
subset of, it somehow builds on intellect (shows the same
relationship to it that intellect does to society) Thus intellect's
dualisms may be applied provided that they are seen as useful
tools and not reality itself.
The conclusion is that the awareness/pattern distinction can be
applied
> I am forming the view, that
> it is intellectual perception that corresponds to a SOL,
"Reason" is the expression, but as SOL is the slightly more
elaborated version of it, things can be seen that way. Your
"perception" means "awareness" ..no?
> but as
> perception is a filtered version of the (REAL) static patterns
> (themselves mystic to us), the full MOQ intellectual level is
> different from a SOL because it must describe the static patterns
> themselves.
A deep one Jos. If applied to the social level: The patterns are
the social units (whatever), while emotion is the awareness that
glues them together. If that's your idea it looks good.
Re. intellect: The patterns are (say) democracy, human rights,
free press and speech ...etc. while reason is the awareness
behind them. This makes sense to me
If we don't run into trouble regarding the inorganic level where no
- um - subjective side can be postulated. Let's think!
Bo
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