From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Sun Oct 09 2005 - 13:36:01 BST
Hi Arlo,
You said,
I have found, sadly, that like-minded participants to the forum tend not to
interact as often as do opposition posts. And so it easy to come to feel "out
there" by yourself. I'm just as guilty of that as anybody, but I do think its
important to chime in in agreement now and then. There were a few times I felt
frustrated when, for example, Mark's (MSH), Ant's and Ian's comments brought me
back. I guess the short answer is, I would not be the only one who'd miss your
insights.
I say,
You acknowledge my contribution, which is nice, and I'd like to
re-inforce the point. We will never run out of arguments about binary
opposite views - that's just too easy, and ultimately pointless.
Synthesis, accentuating the positive, making 5 from 2 plus 2, now
that's creative. I loved you brave effort to make something positive
out of Platt's enforced child-labour proposal (which initially just
left me shaking my head in disbelief), even if it took a "liberal"
interpretation on your part, no doubt a million miles from Platt's
intent.
Evolution requires nurture as well as competition.
One can't have too many "me too" posts I find.
Thanks for the opportunity.
Ian
On 10/8/05, Arlo J. Bensinger <ajb102@psu.edu> wrote:
> Greetings Khaled,
>
> [you wrote]
> Just when I think about quitting the forum, you change my mind. Excellent
> response.
>
> [Arlo]
> Don't leave! I can assure you I get just as much (if not more) enjoyment from
> reading your posts. In addition to a unique, and critical, cultural perspective
> that is otherwise lacking in the forum, I've found your posts to be insightful,
> articulate and usually "spot on" (as the Brits say).
>
> I have found, sadly, that like-minded participants to the forum tend not to
> interact as often as do opposition posts. And so it easy to come to feel "out
> there" by yourself. I'm just as guilty of that as anybody, but I do think its
> important to chime in in agreement now and then. There were a few times I felt
> frustrated when, for example, Mark's (MSH), Ant's and Ian's comments brought me
> back. I guess the short answer is, I would not be the only one who'd miss your
> insights.
>
> [you wrote]
> The consumerism issue you bring up is rather a frightening one and is
> rather one of the fundamental problems this nation faces.
> The waste of resources is one, and the financial burden is another.
>
> [Arlo]
> Absolutely agree. It is a psychological manipulation of "pleasure" with the ends
> to solidify wealth for a few, while the great many go further and further into
> debt. Sadly, it is self-stroking, because the "pleasure" brought by consumption
> is fleeting, and need to be "fixed" again and again and again.
>
> I was watching "The Mind of Mencia" the other night, and although he was trying
> to be funny, he made the observation that the "military invasion" of Iraq was
> only the tip of a bigger iceberg. He said, "if you thought that was something,
> look at the horizon... see what's coming... Walmart! In less than a year kids
> are going to be pestering their parents for 'Nike Turbans' and 'Mohammed action
> figures'." That's not quite verbatim, but you get the jist. And you know what,
> its true.
>
> [you wrote]
> You enter the grocery store, and there lies the Loaf of rainbow white
> bread. Yummy. Oh by the way, on your way out don't forget to pick that
> bottle of Metamucil laxative. See they take the goodness out of the
> wheat, and resell it to us in another package.
>
> [Arlo]
> Yup. And this is near and dear to my heart. Here in Central Pennsylvania,
> several years ago we decided to buy into a local organic farm's coop (called a
> CSA (Community Supported Agriculture)). This farm offers eggs, livestock and
> chickens, and bread, all organic, all natural, all free range. We decided to
> give up prepackaged and processed foods to the best of our ability, and cook
> from the "ground up" at least 90% of the time (our target). It was hard to
> break the habit, but once we did we wondered why we ever valued all that
> prepackaged, chemical-laden, vitamin depleted crap in the first place. But look
> at the marketing, the near constant barrage of commercials that are designed to
> *make* you want a product. Not advertise a product neutrally so you know its
> out there if you should happen to need it. No, the goal is the use of
> psychological tactics to "manufacture need".
>
> [you wrote]
> Here where I live in Fresno, we have more places to-- cash checks or get
> an advance on your next paycheck-- than we have bank branches. Yes people
> do pay close to $25 to get $200. By the way, they are cashing those
> checks so they can go to the nearest "gaming center". And the vicious
> cycle continues.
>
> [Arlo]
> Oh these examples are more common than Bush's vacation days. Consider the
> "lower" interest rates people with wealth pay for home loans, for debt
> consolidation. If you are poor, you have to pay more for the same thing. Gee,
> that makes sense.
>
> Or, to use one example talked about in The Rugged Trousered Philanthropists, and
> one that harkens back to Platt's assertion that the "wealthy" preserve Quality,
> everyone knows that higher Quality boots although having a greater upfront
> cost, cost less in the long run because they last and last. Poor quality boots
> fall apart and have to be replaced often. Poor people who can't afford to pay
> the high upfront costs for high Quality boots, end up *paying more* for boots
> over the years because they have to keep rebuying them.
>
> Poor people who manage to own homes, generally own low quality homes, that cost
> more to heat. You talked about food, poor people generally have to buy only the
> lowest quality foods, cheap crap filled with chemicals and preservatives. The
> farm of which we are member has a half dozen memberships it fills each season
> with low income citizens at no cost (the rest of us make up the difference,
> which I am happy to do). It also donates all surplus or unclaimed food each
> week to the local foodbank. But this is because the farm's owners place a
> greater value on something other than wealth. Sadly, this is rare. (Last season
> they needed a barn painted (where the house winter crops awaiting distribution,
> and asked for members with some time to help. They had to turn people away, so
> many showed up. You get what you give in life, they are richer than anyone I
> know.)
>
> Anyways, didn't mean to ramble. I just took a small tangent in my reply to
> Platt, must be the tea I've been drinking to keep the wet, cold rain at bay.
>
> Arlo
>
>
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