From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Mon Oct 10 2005 - 21:47:19 BST
Matt:
> DMB said:
> This is why I think Pirsig and Hayes ARE saying the same thing. They're
> both talking about an experience in which judgement is absent. I would even
> go so fat as to say that taking the "undifferentiated aesthetic continuum",
> the "pure sensation" or "immeditate experience" as a reference to some kind
> of "valuing" or "judging" is to inappropriately let SOM's subjective self
> creep back into the conversation.
>
> Matt:
> I'm actually very surprised by this. I think the reading of the hot stove
> example you just gave is totally wrong. I actually wonder what Paul and
> Anthony think of your most recent writings about Hayes and Pirsig. Up
> until a week ago, I thought everyone, even me, agreed on Pirsig's central
> insight.
> And not only that, you appear to think what you're saying is normal and
> not a radical departure from typical readings of Pirsig. I just can't
> believe any one impressed by Pirsig would say the above. The only thing I
> can really say is, Why did Pirsig call the ultimate reality Quality (which
> he uses interchangeably with Value) if what you say is true? It boggles my
> mind to think that one can have value at the heart of it all without
> valuing. Touching the stove is not a neutral impression, as you would have
> it, its a negative experience, a low-Quality situation, as Pirsig says in
> the very passage in question.
Matt, you are absolutely right, and DMB couldn't be more wrong. There's no
difference between immediate experience and valuing. I may not be one with
a walrus, but I'm one with pre-intellectual experience and moral judgment.
Your explanation of why this is so is dead on. And like you, I thought
anyone who understood Pirsig would understand this basic premise.
Platt
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