From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Wed Oct 19 2005 - 23:35:45 BST
Platt, you said
[Working] "for himself, his family and those he values"
As I said to you before, that's true, but the key thing is who you
value - who is the extended "we" - is it just people with US passports
and Fox subscriptions ? or is it fellow man you value ?
Self-interest yes, but enlightened self-interest surely.
Ian
On 10/19/05, Platt Holden <pholden@sc.rr.com> wrote:
> > [Arlo previously]
> > So, why is what motivated him so different from what would motivate anyone
> > else? Is he some super-human who aspires to things the rest of us would
> > not?
> >
> > [Platt]
> > No, but he is just one person. People do things from many different
> > motives. Not everyone is a Mother Teresa for God's sake. :-)
> >
> > [Arlo]
> > And why is that? Why aren't more people guided by a Quality that is above
> > profit and fame? Are they (Pirsig and Mother Theresa) above the normal,
> > natural profit-focus of man? Or does man behave with a profit-focus because
> > that is what our culture tells him he must?
>
> No. Man behaves with a profit-focus because of his nature. He naturally wants
> to keep what he earns for himself, his family and those he values, and to buy
> the goods/services that enable him to earn more to have and do the things he
> considers to be of Quality. He is not an ant who works for some nameless,
> faceless human hive as you seem to think would be ideal.
>
> > [Platt]
> > I don't think you or Pirsig are in any position to judge whether some jobs
> > are better than others. You can say "I wouldn't want that job" but that's
> > as far as you can go IMO.
> >
> > [Arlo]
> > Then... it's all relative?
>
> As far as one's work, yes. I don't think you or Pirsig or anyone else
> should be telling others that their work is worthless.
>
> > [Platt]
> > To slam low paying jobs as being beneath human dignity is the a slam at all
> > those who work at such jobs.
> >
> > [Arlo]
> > No, Platt. It is realize that a system that pushes those jobs on people is
> > dysfunctional. I've worked them in my life, and I've "slammed" them even at
> > the time. I know many people still working these jobs, who slam them every
> > day.
>
> Somebody has pick up the garbage, clean the dishes and stock the shelves
> at stores.. No reason to "slam" or look down on jobs like that.
>
> > [Platt]
> > I said Sam Walton was a culturally enriching person because he provided
> > goods and services people wanted in a free market.
> >
> > [Arlo]
> > Then Eminem and Larry Flynt are culturally enriching people too. Yes?
>
> For some, yes. Not for me.
>
> > [Platt]
> > You call assaults on the free market "junk, yet attack a free marketeer
> > like Sam Walton. Conclusion: your attack on Walton is "junk." I agree.
> >
> > [Arlo]
> > Horrible logic. By this reasoning, you're attack on free marketeers Eminem
> > and Larry Flynt is an attack on the free market.
>
> I made it clear that certain parts of the free market are not to my
> liking. But, unlike you, I support the free market. You don't. You assault
> it. You'd like to substitute a Quality market ruled by Arlo.
>
> > After all, Larry Flynt provides products millions want. His empire (a porn
> > empire) provides employment for thousands. His products are cheap. People
> > value them. Hence, Flynt has enriched the culture. Same with Eminem.
> >
> > Conclusion: poor logic, Platt.
>
> Conclusion poor logic, Arlo. Flynt and Eminem haven't demeaned the culture
> by demanding restrictions on the free market like you want.
>
> Platt
>
>
>
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