From: Scott Roberts (jse885@localnet.com)
Date: Fri Oct 28 2005 - 05:00:46 BST
David M, Ham,
Ham said:
It can't do this by
> denying the individual subject of experience, or by postulating that the
> conscious intellect is some mysterious glob that exists in nature.
DM said:
THe subject is an abstraction that we do not experience.
Scott:
There is a third possibility, that the subject is neither individual nor an
abstraction. My favorite mystic, Franklin Merrell-Wolff, in describing his
penultimate Realization, called it Pure Subject. As far as I can tell, he
could also have described it as Pure DQ, that is, a state completely
detached from all SQ. (Aside: note that this was penultimate: at the time he
thought it was ultimate, but later had a further experience, in which he
realized that the Pure Subject experience contained a duality: that between
the absolute and the relative. But back to the topic...)
I've said many times that in talking about subject and object one needs to
distinguish between S/O[1], or mind and matter, which is the only S/O
recognized by the MOQ. The other S/O[2] is, I assume what Ham is referring
to, where O[2] is any object of thought or of perception, including S[1].
S[1] could be called an abstraction, that is, it is a word for a lot of
actual or potential O[2], like thoughts and feelings. But -- assuming I've
read FM-W correctly, not S[2]. But he, and others, would deny that S[2] is
individual. That is, with no objects at all, your S[2] and mine are the same
thing (much as your Euclidean triangle and mine are the same thing.)
As a final comment, all this amounts to saying that DQ/SQ is pretty much
the same thing as S/O[2], though the former appellation has the virtue of
including the Q, and of course the latter constantly gets confused with
S/O[1].
- Scott
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