From: Arlo J. Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Fri Nov 04 2005 - 12:56:39 GMT
[Arlo previously]
I am coming from is this. In ZMM, the crisis arose as a result of an
"amoral" (in the sense of an inability to see value) metaphysics that has
been given a dominant cultural position.
[Platt]
In my understanding, the "crisis" was not that SOM had no provision for
marketplace values (goods and services) but no provision for morals, i.e.
personal behavior patterns. Thus, intellectuals hobnobbed with criminals
during the 60's because they had no rational basis to distinguish between
a Mother Teresa and a terrorist. That's why even today we have college
professors cheering on al Qaeda "insurgents."
[Arlo]
ZMM was not about morals, it was about values. One could argue they are
manifestations of the same thing. A "moral" is a value pattern.
Even so, if SOM had no provision for morals, personal behavior patterns, how
could "marketplace values" be unaffected? What? The only "problem" of SOM was
in how intellectuals hobnobbed? I don't even recall this being a central issue
of ZMM? Whereas, production and consumption are used throughout the book. From
examples using rotisserie assembly, to welding, to repairing motorcycles, to
mechanices, to shopkeepers, to the very summation for ZMM...
"The real ugliness lies in the relationship between the people who produce the
technology and the things they produce, which results in a similar relationship
between the people who use the technology and the things they use."
Or, when Pirsig says of the underlying cultural defect, "The "it" is a kind of
force that gives rise to technology, something undefined, but inhuman,
mechanical, lifeless, a blind monster, a death force. Something hideous they
are running from but know they can never escape."
It's that "force" that was the central issue of ZMM, not who "intellectuals"
invite over for tea.
And finally, Pirsig is clear about this "force" manifesting itself in production
("People arrive at a factory and perform a totally meaningless task from eight
to five without question because the structure demands that it be that way.
There’s no villain, no "mean guy" who wants them to live meaningless lives,
it’s just that the structure, the system demands it and no one is willing to
take on the formidable task of changing the structure just because it is
meaningless.") and consumption ("Put the two together and you get a pretty
accurate basic description of modern American technology: stylized cars and
stylized outboard motors and stylized typewriters and stylized clothes.
Stylized refrigerators filled with stylized food in stylized kitchens in
stylized houses. Plastic stylized toys for stylized children, who at Christmas
and birthdays are in style with their stylish parents.")
You mention concern over my view that "symbols", altering the language, can
change the world, saying...
[Platt]
Again you blame language for what you see as a "crises" in the
marketplace. You seem to think by changing the symbols we use, we can
change the world. That's what propagandists believe.
[Arlo]
It's what Pirsig believes. For example, in ZMM he states...
"The true system, the real system, is our present construction of systematic
thought itself, rationality itself, and if a factory is torn down but the
rationality which produced it is left standing, then that rationality will
simply produce another factory. If a revolution destroys a systematic
government, but the systematic patterns of thought that produced that
government are left intact, then those patterns will repeat themselves in the
succeeding government. There’s so much talk about the system. And so little
understanding."
And, if that's not convincing enough, he also has this to say...
"technological ugliness syruped over with romantic phoniness in an effort to
produce beauty and profit by people who, though stylish, don’t know where to
start because no one has ever told them there’s such a thing as Quality in this
world and it’s real, not style."
That, right there amigo, is the crisis and the solution. Note that Pirsig is not
"calling everyone stupid", he is saying very clearly that the cultural language
is defective, has no means of recognizing Quality, and providing a language for
this is exactly what ZMM and Lila have been for.
[Platt]
Could it be you don't accuse me of this stuff because I don't consider
people too dumb (or too busy) not to see through so called "manipulative
advertising?" If it's the OPPOSITE of what you say, then people are indeed
smart enough not to be fooled by advertising, and thus it presents no
"crisis" as you seem to think.
[Arlo]
Not according to Pirsig. In ZMM he was very clear about the cultural defect that
was preventing the seeing of Quality.
"People arrive at a factory and perform a totally meaningless task from eight to
five without question because the structure demands that it be that way.
There’s no villain, no "mean guy" who wants them to live meaningless lives,
it’s just that the structure, the system demands it and no one is willing to
take on the formidable task of changing the structure just because it is
meaningless."
And... "he knows that buried within it are grotesque, twisted souls forever
trying the manners that will convince themselves they possess Quality, learning
strange poses of style and glamour vended by dream magazines and other mass
media, and paid for by the vendors of substance."
Finally, to repost one quote extended... "don’t know where to start because no
one has ever told them there’s such a thing as Quality in this world and it’s
real, not style. Quality isn’t something you lay on top of subjects and objects
like tinsel on a Christmas tree. Real Quality must be the source of the
subjects and objects, the cone from which the tree must start."
People are not stupid, they "don’t know where to start because no one has ever
told them there’s such a thing as Quality in this world and it’s real, not
style."
I think in my last post you missed the ZMM reference when I mentioned tinsel,
accusing me instead of being Mr. Grinch robbing the world of baubles (before I
after I inter everyone at Gulag Archipeli-arlo?)
[Platt]
A Christmas without tinsel? Please. The world you seem to want is a world
without any useless baubles at all, a world without ribbons and wrapping
paper and syrupy greeting cards.
[Arlo]
Cue music... "You're a mean one, Mr. Arlo."
Arlo
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