From: Elizaphanian (elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Sun Mar 09 2003 - 11:48:09 GMT
Hi Steve, DMB, anyone listening in.
Steve asked about changes in views. DMB said:
> Good question. My political views have changed dramatically. I used to be
a
> conservative, went to a conservative college and was an Ayn Rand fan.
In many ways my development is the mirror image of DMB's. (Which might
explain a lot.)
I read ZMM when I was 18, before going off to university (and before three
months wandering around the US) and I think it has conditioned most of my
mature thinking. Not all, but most - certainly philosophically, and
especially in regard to what science can and cannot provide. Lila came out
two years later, while I was doing my first degree, and like DMB I was most
struck by the distinction between the social and the intellectual level,
which I think is a profound insight of genius (however much I now disagree
with Pirsig about what the fourth level actually is). In terms of major
influences on my thinking, I would put Wittgenstein first and Pirsig second.
Lots of compatibilities, but Wittgenstein goes a bit deeper (he had a better
understanding of what sort of thing religious belief is for a start).
At uni my political views were distinctly 'Green' (and atheistic) - I used
to campaign for them in elections etc, and I took my first job in the UK
Department of the Environment, in order to pursue those interests. I was
never a 'fundi' though, because - if nothing else - ZMM teaches a proper
respect for technology, which hasn't gone away. My political views didn't
really change much for the next ten years or so - mildly left of centre,
pragmatic, interested in anarchist socialism (as opposed to state
socialism -something I've never had time for. I read Hayek at uni which has
been an abiding influence). I remain a long-standing supporter of Amnesty
International.
The big shift is a recent one, occasioned from joining in with this forum.
In particular, the discussions after 9/11, especially with Rog (the late
lamented) and with Platt, about the virtues of free enterprise and the US co
nstitution etc, and also a more detailed engagement with what the social
level actually is (and how it can be fostered), have shifted me distinctly
'rightwards' - although I'm not sure my fundamental values have changed,
they've just become more conscious. (I read Atlas Shrugged for the first
time last Christmas, which I found very striking. I even went and listened
in to a discussion forum on it, but the quality of discussion wasn't a patch
on what we have here!)
So to answer Steve's question directly, I'm not sure I can point to a
specific moral perspective that has changed since reading Pirsig's own work;
but my perspective on free trade and economic questions has, from discussion
in this forum.
Sam
"Anarchism is not a fixed set of ideas; it's a tendency in human thought
that is trying to identify kinds of authority and domination and, if they
can't justify themselves which they rarely can, to work to overcome them.
that means overcoming state authority. It also means overcoming the
autocracy of capitalist enterprise, which is simply another form of
hierarchy and domination. It means overcoming sexist repression. Whatever
you find. Sometimes authority can be justified. So, for example, you stop a
three-year old kid from running across the street into traffic. That's
authority, but I think you can give a justification for it. However, the
burden of proof is always on those with the authority. They have to
demonstrate that their authority and control is legitimate and that
justification can very rarely be given." (Chomsky)
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