Re: MD Re: Quality, subjectivity and the 4th level

From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Sun Nov 20 2005 - 15:33:39 GMT

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    Mike & Matt.

    18 Nov. Michael Hamilton wrote:

    > I've left an appaling number of good responses hanging in the air for
    > the last couple of weeks, due to what I can only describe as a bad
    > case of "MD fatigue". In the light of Mark's recent challenge, this
    > seems like as good a time as any to re-enter the fray.

    Good to have you back Mike. I go directly to this passage.

    > Mike:
    > Shockingly, I hadn't bothered to read Sam's essay on the "eudaimonic
    > MOQ" until you sent this. Reading it was another thing that had me
    > shut up for the last couple of weeks. I'm now fairly convinced that
    > autonomy is more fundamental to the 4th level than "intellect" per se,
    > but I also think that autonomy is more fundamental to the 4th level
    > than eudaimonia, as well, although perhaps this is what you mean by
    > "emphasizing the shift"?
     
    I haven't bothered with Sam's eudaemonia idea either because it
    looks superfluous to me. After all Pirsig gives a splendid and
    convincing description of how the S/O split (the 4th level IMO)
    emerged, developed and "came of age" in ZMM. What Sam
    adds to this I never understood. But I'm willing to listen, please
    give me its gist Mike.

    > Matt:
    > > Our suggestions have a lot
    > > to do with autonomy, but we're screwing with the framework more to
    > > emphasize the shift (well, that and we don't think you _can_ make a
    > > discrete distinction between what Pirsig calls the social and
    > > intellectual level).

    > Mike:
    > So you don't think we can have a discrete distinction between mythos
    > and logos? For the moment, I still have high hopes that such a
    > distinction can be linked to autonomy, or S/O[2].

    And if you in addition would explain the different S/O layers of
    Scott I'll be even more grateful.

    Bo

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