RE: MD FW: The intellectual level and rationality

From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Thu Nov 24 2005 - 08:49:29 GMT

  • Next message: ian glendinning: "Re: MD 4th level - The more autonomous level."

    Paul and Apostles

    21 Nov.

    > Paul: Rebecca has already corrected your misunderstanding regarding
    > my notation. So, back to my argument:

    Yes, blush!

    > If intellectual level = rationality
    > and
    > If rationality > SOM
    > Then intellectual level > SOM

    > Which premise do you believe is false?

    The "rationality greater than SOM" naturally.

    It implies that the MOQ (all of it) is a 4th level pattern. A religious
    believer will claim that s-he is rational, which means that religions
    along with the myths of old are "intellectual patterns". MOQ's
    terrific explanatory power comes from the level discreteness and
    a 4th.level that is to host every idea forwarded since time
    immemorial and - in addition - the MOQ which IS the very level
    system makes a mess of it.
     
    > So, as I'm a little confused by your position, or maybe because I'm a
    > village idiot, answer this simple question:
     
    > As Pirsig suggests in ZMM, can rationality be expanded beyond
    > classical S/O rationality?
     
    The level system hadn't occurred in ZMM so "an expansion
    beyond classical S/O rationality" could hardly be anything else
    than a "better rationality ". But in LILA where the 4th. level bears
    every mark of being SOM, the very system that sees this level
    along with the rest is beyond them. The term "beyond" carries
    some beyond significance. No?

        -------------------------------------------------------

    Pirsig in ZMM:
    > "So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the solution to the problem
    > isn't that you abandon rationality but that you expand the nature of
    > rationality so that it's capable of coming up with a solution."

    "Not abandoning rationality" is the key. The 4th level must be
    kept, it can never abandon its S/O value - no ore than the 3rd,
    second or first levels can theirs.

    Bo

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