From: david buchanan (dmbuchanan@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Dec 04 2005 - 01:50:03 GMT
Paul, Rebecca, Marsha and all MOQers:
Paul answered Rebecca:
In LILA he realises this when he looks into the proto-indo-european
etymology of aretê. He is initially dismayed at the static connotations of
its etymology which differed from his ZMM interpretation of aretê as Dynamic
Quality:
"The meanings [of rt], grouped together, suggested something different from
his interpretation of aretê. They suggested "importance" but it was an
importance that was formal and social and procedural and manufactured,
almost an antonym to the Quality he was talking about. Rt meant "quality"
all right but the quality it meant was static, not Dynamic." [LILA p.435]
Paul continued:
But then he identifies the rt morpheme with the Sanskrit "rta," which later
became "dharma," and sees how it "contains" both static and Dynamic Quality
without contradiction, which resolves his dilemma. He thinks the Orient,
with their translation of "rt" into "rta," preserved more carefully and thus
paid more attention to the original meaning of rt ...
dmb says:
Nice work, Paul. i think you've sorted things out with refreshing clarity
here and I'm grateful. I just wanted to add the Plains Cree also seemed to
have a word like dharma in that it retained both static and Dynamic
connotations. Ive lost the page number for this quote from LILA...
"Their (American Indian) term MANITO is often used interchangeabley with
"God" by whites who usually think all religion is theistic and by Indians
themselves who don't make a big deal out of any verbal distinctions. But as
David Mandelbaum noted in his book THE PLAINS CREE, 'The term MANITO
primarily referred to the Supreme Being but also had many other usages. It
was applied to manifestations of skill, fortune, blessing, luck, to any
wonderous occurrence. It connoted any phenomenon that transcended the run of
everyday experience.' In other words, 'Dynamic Quality.' With the
identification of static and Dynamic Quality as the fundamental division of
the world, Phaedrus felt that some kind of goal had been reached. This first
division of the MOQ now covered the spectrum of experience from primitive
mysticism to quantum mechanics."
dmb continues:
What I especially like it that the Cree are using one term for the supreme
being and for excellence in everyday life, to manifestations of skill and
luck. I think this little description helps to imagine what arete may have
meant among the ancient Sophists, before it became "formal and social and
procedural". That's it. I just thought it was interesting to find a
non-Oriental example. Or is it? If you go back far enough, the American
plains Indians are from the East and I suppose there are some cultural as
well as genetic connections.
Also, I like to think about this array of uses, the variety of applications
of a words like Manito or Dharma or Dynamic Quality in terms of what Pirsig
said about his diagram, in terms of the quote Paul posted and Marsha loved
so well....
"In the few diagrams I have made of the evolutionary structure of the MOQ,
Dynamic Quality is not part of the diagram. Dynamic Quality is represented
by the paper the diagram is written on. I like that device because there is
no diagram in the world that can contain the paper it is written on."
[Pirsig to Turner, Sept '05]
See, if the written diagram is static and the paper its printed on
represents DQ, then DQ is what stands under the whole static thing, its
totally ubiquitous. And so it only stands to reason that manifestations are
to be found in every part of the diagram. It only stands to reason that
excellence can be found at every level in that diagram. I suppose this is
related to the difficulty of defining it or trying to pin it down. It has so
many meanings because it needs them, you know? Pining it down would be
making it part of the diagram instead of the paper its written upon. Fixing
a definition would make it too small.
OK. That's not very well said, but I suppose you get the idea.
Thanks,
dmb
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