Re: MD Heroes, ethnocentrism, Qualtiy, and War

From: SQUONKSTAIL@aol.com
Date: Wed Mar 12 2003 - 20:26:07 GMT

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    Andy:
    So, we quite naturally are drawn to considering these ideals as more moral
    than others and we can justify our willingness to impose these values on
    other cultures.

    sq: Look out Iraq!

    The Pirsig quote, on the civil war, can be used to justify
    any number of actions. I don’t have a difficulty with this kind of
    ethnocentrism, because I do agree with the ideals and morality of democracy
    and of having empathy for all other people. However, I don’t think the
    loss of life that occurred during the civil war can ever be justified, IMO.
    There could have been more imaginative ways to influence the demise of
    slavery in the south beyond the careless loss of life that ensued during
    this war. However, in the case of the civil war, the loss of life was
    mostly contained to soldiers who were conditioned to put their life on the
    line and civilians were, for the most part, spared.

    sq: The civil war in the middle of the 19th century was about the
    humanitarian treatment of blacks was it? I see. That must be why they were so
    free after the war! Sharecropping was a great joy for all concerned! Good
    show Andy!

    Andy (for it is he)
    Modern warfare does not make this distinction in life. The bombing of an
    urban center does not distinguish between civilians and soldiers.
    Americans have recently (yesterday) tested the largest non-nuclear bomb
    ever. It will supposedly not be used in a populated area during the war in
    Iraq. But, if Iraqi republican guard can be isolated away from an urban
    area, the bomb could be used to wipe out the whole regiment in a single
    explosion. This will guarantee that the Iraqi soldiers will stay within
    the boundaries of Baghdad. And it is likely, if the American soldiers are
    suffering heavy casualties and Saddam remains in power over some duration,
    that the bomb will be used over the city of Baghdad.

    sq: Is this bomb what you might call a 'weapon of mass destruction' at all?
    Great! Nuclear bombs don't target civilians either! Errr. Hang on? Errrr?
    Good show anyway! Excellent writing piece of show.

    This should imply that Americans exhaust all diplomatic avenues before
    imposing force in removing Saddam from power. There is quality in removing
    Saddam from power, but there is no quality in the loss of life resulting
    from war. In particular, the loss of innocent life is the lowest quality.

    sq: Excellent writing! Good show! Like the Americans always fully intended to
    avoid war! How excellent!

    Andy:
    I hesitate however, using “quality” for the justification of diplomacy over
    war with Iraq.

    sq: Go on! Force yerself! Be daring! :O

    I can hear the replies already defending war on the basis
    of some other “quality.” The real motive for diplomacy should be a
    morality which has been formed over our history as Americans.

    We should have learned lessons from past mistakes and be imaginative enough
    to find
    new solutions. When I touch someone in a loving way, caressing their skin
    softly, the “quality” they feel is reflected back to me. I can feel their
    pleasure. I am at peace.

    When I strike out at someone in violence, I feel only hatred-theirs and
    mine-and the “quality” of the experience is low. I can feel their pain. I

    am not at peace. I am in war. I am in fear of their retaliation. My
    defenses must remain at the highest level of alert. This is the low
    quality future American action in Iraq is now defining for the next
    generations-both ours and the rest of the world. Where is our imagination?
    Who are our heroes?

    Andy

    sq: I think you will find that 'your' heroes are in Iraq about to kick the
    A-ass of Iraqi civilians mate.

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