From: SQUONKSTAIL@aol.com
Date: Wed Mar 12 2003 - 23:25:47 GMT
Hi Matt,
Let us examine what you feel serves to have you confer upon it an, 'excellent
piece of writing' shall we? Here we go folks...!
Andy:
To All,
I recently came across a quote from Rorty that Matt cited in his essay
again reading Consequences of Pragmatism. The quote is:
“This means that when the secret police come, when the torturers violate
the innocent, there is nothing to be said to them of the form ‘There is
something within you which you are betraying. Though you embody the
practices of a totalitarian society which will endure forever, there is
something beyond those practices which condemns you.’”
I think it is a very powerful quote and it has led me to think about social
conditioning. These secret police will presumably only be following orders
of their leaders. They are valuing social patterns over intellectual ones
in MOQ terms.
sq: Excellent piece of writing says Matt. But what is this? Are these violent
people really valuing social patterns over intellectual ones? Me thinks not!
The boys here are indulging in organic pleasure. Their endorphins are raging,
and that is not a social pattern. The social pattern is not stopping the
biological pattern from gaining control. Good show Andy! Excellent piece of
writing!
Andy 'Try that down our way and me and boys will sort you out' goes on:
I think we can say the same thing if we were able to speak
with the 9/11 hijackers. Likewise, the pilots of American planes, who will
drop 3000 bombs in the first 48 hours of an invasion of Iraq with the
complete knowledge that innocent civilians will be killed, according to
military officials, are conditioned to place social values over higher
moral ones - by following orders.
sq: The 9/11 fundamentalists knew they were definitely going to die. Pardon
me? But flying a commercial aircraft at normal flying velocity into the side
of one of the tallest buildings in the world is a tad risky? The secret
police and American pilots in Iraq are not acting in a similar value pattern
at all. The Fundamentalists place social patterns over biological ones. There
are no intellectual ones. The American pilots do in fact place social
patterns over intellectual one; they are worse than the fundamentalists. Good
Show Andy! As Matt so excellently points out, 'excellent and sobering!' I can
see why so many feel Matt is the guru everyone thinks he is!
TO BE CONTINUED....
squonk
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