Re: MD Heroes, ethnocentrism, Qualtiy, and War

From: bahna@rpi.edu
Date: Sat Mar 15 2003 - 19:50:31 GMT

  • Next message: Steve Peterson: "Re: MD Heroes, ethnocentrism, Qualtiy, and War"

    Hi Steve:

    You said: One can't be pro-UN inspections and be anti-use of force on
    Iraq. They are contradictory positions.

    Andy: I assure you they are not contradictory positions. The inspections
    have worked since the beginning. But, this is not the point. Obviously,
    the US has made Saddam nervous and he has had to destroy even more weapons
    due to the threat of force. But, where is everybody's memory? In 1991,
    Saddam had an airforce, a stockpile of chemical and biological weapons, a
    nuclear weapons program in place and a formidable army. We not only
    destroyed his army, his air force and his air defenses, but have
    successfully limited the importation of technology since the war to allow
    an ability to replenish the stockpiles. During the Gulf war, THe US is the
    only one that used weapons of mass destruction - not Saddam (depleted
    uranium warheads). World opinion finds the US a much greater threat to
    world peace than Iraq or North Korea. The US response is so much the worse
    for world opinion. This does not look good for the prospects of peace or
    democracy.

    I don't believe the US wants to rid the world of Saddam or get rid of
    weapons of mass production, because all evidence indicates he has none. I
    believe it is about the oil and also about Saudi Arabia. The US knows who
    financed Al queda and where there support came from. Many of the financers
    were in bed with US business including businessmen within the
    administration and with close ties with the Bush family. The only way to
    deal with the Saudi's is to move next door. To call them out, would be an
    embarassment to Bush. We will have a permanent military prescence in Iraq
    after this war I assure you. The threat of the Saudi's slowing the flow of
    oil, or worse, directing it somewhere else in the world (China, Russia,
    Germany, France - hmm where have I seen these names before), is the threat
    to our security. Most notably our economy, which is in worse shape than we
    even know. This is all about the oil and the economy and many people are
    going to suffer as a result.

    So, conspiracy, I am sure you are now muttering to yourself. Andy, come
    back to the real world. Well, I have no proof to offer you other than my
    own observations. It all seems too obvious to me. Although, I have never
    been able to rule out the possibility that I am insane. So, you are free
    to think that.

    but, back to the anti-war movements and the inspections. All polls show
    them to be tied together. THis is what world opinion desires. Peace
    through inspections. Noone has any love for Saddam. But the US is not just
    there to scare Saddam into complying. They are there only to wage war.
    And it has only been world opinion (anti-war movement) which has kept it
    from already taking place.

    Andy

    On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 12:38:16 -0500 Steve Peterson wrote:

    > Hi Andy,
    >
    > You said:
    >
    > >The antiwar
    > > protests do not support Saddam, they just ask for the inspections to be

    > > allowed to work.
    >
    > I think it's important not to confuse the peace movement with the "allow
    > the
    > inspections to continue" movement. If the US agreed to abide by whatever

    > decision the Un Security Council eventually made, how long would the
    > inspectors be in Iraq and what sort of access would they get? Not long
    > and
    > not much IMHO. Inspections only proceed because the US is holding a gun
    > to
    > Saddam's head. They are not accomplished through peaceful means.
    >
    > I recognize that the US has bungled the international politics, but I
    > wonder
    > what if anything France is prepared to do about Saddam. One can't be
    > pro-UN
    > inspections and be anti-use of force on Iraq. They are contradictory
    > positions.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Steve
    >
    >
    >
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