Re: MD Changes

From: Valence (valence10@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Mar 16 2003 - 01:23:54 GMT

  • Next message: David Buchanan: "RE: MD Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 15:08:00 -0700"

    Hey Platt,
    I wonder if it is a coincidence that the word "Quality" is in the word
    "EQuality"....???

    PLATT
    > As previously explained, it's in society's interest to sanction marriage
    > between a man and a woman. To use an imperfect analogy, it is in
    > society's interest to reward intellectual achievement. If in the name of
    > equality you gave everyone an A regardless of achievement, you would
    > not serve that interest.

    RICK
        This is a multiple choice problem. Please complete the sentence with
    the choice that you feel best completes the analogy....
        IF, in the name of equality, you gave everyone an 'A' regardless of
    achievement, THEN students would no longer achieve, BECAUSE students are
    only motivated to achieve by the desire to get 'A's. Similarly, IF, in the
    name of equality, you let homosexual couples marry, THEN heterosexuals would
    no longer marry, BECAUSE _______________.

    A) Heterosexuals are only motivated to marry by laws preventing homosexual
    marriage.
    B) Heterosexuals would no longer value the benefits of marriage if
    homosexuals could marry and get those same benefits.
    C) Heterosexuals would instead choose to be homosexual if they knew they
    could marry legally.

    PLATT
    > ....Are you suggesting sterility tests in addition to blood tests as a
    > prerequisite for attaining a marriage license?

    RICK
    Actually, I thought you were implying this. Using the logic you presented
    above, if the reward of marriage is given to couples that can't procreate
    then it will become a less attractive reward to couples that can procreate
    (right?). So why should it matter what the reason is that the couple can't
    procreate (sterility or homosexuality)? If they can't procreate, then by
    your theory letting them marry would endanger the incentive system. Right?

    RICK (from last time)
    > > What about overpopulated societies? Should they reverse the law so
    as
    > > to discourage procreation?

    PLATT
    > No. Populations wax and wane naturally for many reasons other than
    > marriage laws.

    RICK
    Then why does the converse (using marriage as an incentive system to
    procreation) make sense to you?

    PLATT
    > Maybe you're right. But how many married homosexuals will adopt
    > children? I don't know the statistics.

    RICK
    I don't either. But we know that at least some such couples exist, so why
    bother denying them?

    PLATT
    > Pirsig has made it clear (in Lila's Child) that he did not intend the MOQ
    to
    > provide definitive answers to all moral issues but rather provide a new,
    > framework for considering them based on reason rather than social
    > convention.

    RICK
    It is strange to see you (Platt the Absolutist) take argumentative refuge in
    the notion that the MoQ doesn't provide definite answers.

    PLATT
    Within this framework, I take the position of preserving what
    > I see as a necessary social pattern. You take the position of individual
    > freedom and equality.

    RICK
        Actually, I take the position that there is no conflict between allowing
    gays to marry and preserving the kinds of patterns I think you're worried
    about. I think heterosexuals *want* to marry, I think they *want* to have
    children and *want* to raise and protect those children. I think
    heterosexuals (obviously) raised and protected their children before there
    were such things as societies or marriages and that they would continue to
    do so whether or not homosexuals could marry or whether there was such a
    thing as "marriage" at all. I think that whole pattern is biological and
    needs no social encouragement for support.

    PLATT
    Both positions are supported by the MOQ with
    > yours probably having the moral edge because in the MOQ moral
    > hierarchy it's an intellectual pattern. One must be careful, however, not
    > to let an intellectual pattern undermine a necessary social pattern.

    RICK
    One must also be careful of value rigidity, which chokes off dynamic good.
    For a glimpse of the dynamic good your view risks choking off, take a look
    at Davor's recent post in this thread.

    PLATT
    > Would you also agree that our discussion has provided an example of
    > how to use the MOQ to intelligently grapple with moral issues? I think
    > we have. At the very least, I respect your position and see how, within
    > the MOQ framework, you could be right.

    RICK
        Well, I think we have barely brushed over the tip of an iceberg of a
    moral issue. But also I think we've provided a nice little example of how we
    can employ the language of the MoQ to explore the views of others and
    develop our own. Thanks for sharing your view with me.

    takecare,
    rick

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