From: bahna@rpi.edu
Date: Sun Mar 16 2003 - 05:48:25 GMT
Platt:
Thanks for the thoughts. We won't get very far. You have your strong
beliefs and you are very certain about them. I have mine. I don't think
we will ever have a profitable discussion and that is why I have not
pursued one with you in the past. So, we can end this one now if you don't
mind.
Andy
On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 17:01:51 -0500 "Platt Holden" wrote:
> Hi Andy:
>
> > I answer: I think the protests around the world are aimed directly at
> the
> > US and its aggressive military policy, its production of weapons of
> mass
> > destruction, and its dismissal of world opinions, treaties and
> > organizations.
>
> You call populations in a few countries "world opinion?" Have you
> counted the protesters and compared it to the world's population? Have
> you taken into account U.S. popular opinion? What world treaties has
> the U.S. violated? What world organizations has the U.S. ignored?
>
> >The US helped Saddam (as they did Bin Laden) obtain and use
> > weapons of mass destruction. This is an undisputed fact.
>
> You mean an undisputed myth. Cite the source for your supposed
> "fact."
>
> >The antiwar
> > protests do not support Saddam, they just ask for the inspections to be
> > allowed to work.
>
> The inspections have worked. They have found that Saddam has not
> disarmed in accordance with the Gulf War peace treaty and U.N.
> resolutions demanding compliance over 12 years.
>
> P:
> >Also, how was the
> > U.S. Constitution better 6 months ago? In your dreams, what provisions
> > would you add to our constitution to make it better?
>
> A:
> > To the second part of your question, I think I have to ask, when was
> the
> > patriot act signed? This is certainly a restricition on individual
> rights.
> > This was probably signed over 6 months ago, so lets say since 9/11
> 2001.
>
> What provisions in the patriot act violate rights guaranteed by the U.S.
> Constitution?
>
> > Ask any arab American how the US was a land of greater freedom
> >before this
> > date
>
> How many Arab Americans have you asked?
>
> >So to begin with we could get rid of the patriot act, at least those
> > parts which allow infringement on are privacies. For instance, the
> right
> > of the FBI to subpeona library records and bookstores for the thooughts
> we
> > are reading.
>
> Is this a "right of privacy" guaranteed by the Constitution? Where in the
>
> Constitution do you find this privacy right?
>
> > Finally You asked: Which of the following wars would you not have
> fought?
> >
> > American Revolution
> > Civil War
> > World War II against Germany
> > World War II against Japan
> > Korean War
> > Gulf War
>
> > Seriously, I don't know the answer to your question. I do
> > believe in peace, but there are some situations I can imagine that
> would be
> > worth dying for. I was only alive during the last war in your list and
> I
> > was on the streets protesting against that. So I can say I would not
> have
> > fought the first gulf war, although I would have pursued every other
> means
> > available to get Saddam to leave Kuwait.
>
> So even though U.N. was behind the Gulf war, you weren't?
>
> > Mistakes? Well, Hiroshima is an
> > obvious one.
>
> Why was Hiroshima an obvious mistake?
>
> > WW II with Germany might have been avoided if the peace from
> > the Great war was negotiated differently.
>
> So you've found a legitimate reason for going to war? A bad peace
> agreement?
>
> > The Civil War did not make the
> > lives of Blacks much better immediately as pointed out by Squank.
>
> So the end of slavery wasn't such a hot idea after all?
>
> > I can't
> > see much that was gained in the Korean war.
>
> A free and prosperous South Korea means nothing to you?
>
> > And the American Revolution,
> > although it led to our constitution and bill of rights, which I
> support, we
> > still had a government that spent the next 125 years or so killing
> native
> > Americans "like bugs" and that also supported slavery, in addition to
> > excluding women.
>
> That the U.S. abolished slavery and extended full citizenship rights to
> all
> means nothing to you?
>
> > So, I am not sure where I would have stood on the
> > position of war in any of the cases you present (other than the gulf
> war)
> > if I was alive at the time. I would like to think I would have been
> part
> > of an anti-war effort in any, though.
>
> Your position then is peace at any price? Your liberty to express your
> opinion and go "protesting on the streets" is not worth fighting for? I
> take
> it you also disagree with Pirsig's observation that "The instrument of
> conversation between society and biology has always been a policeman
> or a soldier and his gun." (24) ?
>
> Finally, have you read "Lila?" What parts of the Metaphysics of Quality
> do you object to? The part about fighting biological crime perhaps?
>
> Platt
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
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>
>
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