From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Mar 17 2003 - 20:41:50 GMT
Oh wait, I think I remember the story now, the town tricks the Emperor into
believing he is wearing clothes, don't they? Then I understand what you
mean, we can duper ourselves into believing something by sheer
over-confidence and misplaced trust. But that's true.
And note: there's us readers involved in the picture, the ones who know the
"truth", as far as we are concerned. We are those "other people" in this
case. But it's still not like real life, since it's a story. The real
truth is that it never happend at all, it was fiction. Unless, it did
happen and I just don't know that it did.
Perhaps reading stories like this is the source of your problem with
post-modernism, it led you to a feeling that you are a reader reading the
world as its pages turn, and like all books, the author knows the truth and
lets you, the reader, in on it, while the characters grope around
tantalizingly near the truth. You think that all things that happen are
being watched by some audience who knows the truth. But you are not the
reader, none of us are, we are all characters. Even people in the future
who read our archived arguments are just characters a thousand years from
now are just characters too. Even the space aliens who cloned humanity and
built the pyramids. So when any of us talk about what is true, we can
imagine readers shaking their heads at our obstinate character.
>From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: MD Pirsig the postmodernist?
>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:13:26 -0500
>
>Johnny, Matt:
>
> > I don't think Matt has a problem believing what he believes. It would
>be
> > mighty hard to avoid that.
>
>Yes, it sure would. He seems to have no problem with believing
>postmodernism is true, although postmodernism denies truth. You've
>identified another postmodern claim that refutes itself, illustrating once
>again the irrationality of the postmodern posture.
>
> >What he's talking about those times that really
> > matter: when people disagree about what is true. How does one confirm
>what
> > they believe to be true execpt by confirming it with other people? We
>are
> > talking to other people right now, aren't we?
>
>Are you saying that postmodernism has value only when there is
>disagreement about what is true? If so, this presupposes that there is
>such a thing as "the truth" which, if I understand what Matt has been
>saying, is what postmodernists deny.
>
>To paraphrase Alice in Wonderland, "Postmodernism just gets
>curiouser and curiouser."
>
>Platt
>
>
>
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